man owns tvā¦ still leads meaningful life and saves for financial independence
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TFS.x
The 3rd best day of my life, when we upgraded to our lovely 50 incher 
Iām sure if youāve spent more than half an hour perusing frugality and FIRE related blogs, you will have noticed that there is a common meme flying around that the humble Television Set is the mother and father of the devil, that it will make your life miserable and you should probably smash yours up with a sledge hammer right now and live a happy life of redemption and frugal godliness from this point onwards. OK so maybe that is a *slight* exaggeration, but Iām sure you get my point, TV often seems to be frowned upon, to say the least, and many people advocate getting rid of your TV entirely let alone just cancelling the cable/Sky subscription.
Look, I get the points made, and they are no doubt valid ones:
- TVās cost money. Donāt buy one and save more money
- Cable/Sky TV costs even more money. If you donāt have TV you donāt even have to think about this. Save even more money
- TV is a massive time suck that leads to many unproductive hours slouched on the couch. This is time that could be used to foster new skills and fun hobbies, do some exercise, and connect with your friends and family.
- Watching TV exposes you to excessive amounts of advertising, turning you into a consumer drone. Donāt own one and you will never buy anything you didnāt really need, ever again!
- They say that No News is Good News 1 but obviously if you own a TV you will end up watching CNN or BBC News 24 hours a day and become incredibly depressed. So ditch the TV set and live a life of blissful ignorance.
OK so I have been a bit sarcastic with a few of those points, but in generalā¦ Yes! I am totally cool with all of them!
However I donāt see the need to actually not own a TV to get all of those benefits. Why canāt people own a TV and just use it appropriately (i.e. less than average) and just be a bit more picky on what kind of shows they watch.
The adverts thing? Come on people!!! In todays age of catch up TV and digital recording, you never have to watch an advert in your life if you donāt want to!?! I bet you are subjected to far more adverts online nowadays that are actually harder to skip than TV based ones. Admittedly, a lot of 2 the posts Iāve read about not owning a TV are from the American FI crowd, where adverts are waaaaaay worse than over here. But as far as I am aware they have a thing called TIVO which allows you to record things and therefore skip the ads.
And letās not forget there are many benefits of owning a TV as well.
in defence of the humble television set
- TV can be very educational, if you watch the right shows, of course. People complain about kids minds getting warped and ruined by TV but there is plenty of evidence to show that actually they are on balance a great educational tool. Listen to this Freakonomics podcast on the benefits of Sesame Street on school drop out rates when it first aired, for example.
- Time spent together watching a show is sometimes great bonding time with your friends and family. You can cosy up on the couch together and then discuss what you thought about the plot or whatever during/after the show. Some of my best āchill timesā with TFS Jr are snuggled up on the couch together.
- Sometimes you just need to unwind. You canāt be doing something productive with every waking hour of the day ā in my opinion that is in itself unhealthy. Yes, I know you could read a book, listen to the radio, meditate, whatever, but TV is not that bad a second choice for relaxing. And if you are ill for example, you donāt want be doing something even slightly active like reading.
- While social inclusion may not be on some peoples priority list, it is actually still fairly high on mine. Yes, there are plenty of other ways to be socially included, and in todays day and age, you are more free than ever to make your own social groups which have no interest in TV whatsoever. But on a day to day basis, especially if you are still in the grind of working, watching a handful of mainstream TV shows can at the least lubricate a few social conversations at work or in the pub etc. Likewise, I donāt want TFS Jr to be an instant social outcast at school, when that time comes, just because I decided somewhat arbitrarily that TV is synonymous with Satan.
- Call me a bad parent if you will but we have a TV in our room, and when TFS Jr wakes up occasionally at 6am, we stick the TV on to amuse her and get some extra shut eye. I know itās a bit lazy, but Iād rather do that then be up for playing enthusiastically and an attentive parent for the rest of the day, rather than a half arsed one because Iām knackered due to getting up early.
- I love watching sports, when I get free time and something I want to watch is on. I donāt get people who constantly bash sports lovers/watchers but that is a rant I will save for another day, although David Cain has already said it way better than I could already.
- Lastlyā¦ TV shows can be, you know, fun to watch!
my beef with the āNo TVā crowd
Before we go on, I would just like to say, I donāt think anyone espousing this āNo TVā lifestyle is trying to make others feel bad about owning TVās or anything like that, and they are trying to help people improve their lives. So while I fully support their original intentions, I still āgot beefā with it Iām afraid to say:
Itās all just a bit hypocritical ā Most of these people admit to still watching TV shows via online streaming, so they clearly have no issues with consuming entertainment via the medium of a glowing screen of some form. So what difference does it exactly make if that is a 17ā³ laptop, a 28ā³ monitor or a 60ā³ Flat Screen TV? I just donāt get the obsession on the āTVā part of it.
Itās all just a bit sanctimonious ā Again, I have to stress I know that it is not the intention to sound like this. But Iām sorryā¦ no matter how many times you say you respect peoples decisions to own TVās and what not, it just comes across that you think you are better than everyone else for not owning a TV. Sentences such as āNot owning a TV isnāt all about saving money, it also letās me spend more time with my childrenā are implicitly telling everyone else who does own a TV that you think they are not spending enough time with their children. This may well be the case in many instances, but as a general point it is clearly Bullsh!t and not a fair judgement to be making.
ostracise or incentivise?
I donāt think this helps. It doesnāt help the average Joe or Joanna connect with frugality and FIRE principals. Maybe that is not your intention? Maybe you are trying to distance yourself from the mainstream, create your own tribe, and if so, then that is fine. MMM often talks about this and deliberately makes things an āus vs themā type of situation which he says is more likely to bring people listen to you, support your cause, and bring them back to your blog for further reading. But what if you are the āthemā?
I feel a lot of people could be missing the really important messages us FIRE types have to say because of this sort of attitude.
I think the FIRE/Frugal crowd should be trying be more inclusive and touch as many people as it can, and therefore do the most good 3. I thought that was the whole point of all these blogs, but maybe I am wrong?
To be fair, this āsanctimoniousā thing is not just restricted to TVās and it has been noted by many others before. There is even a very long Reddit thread on it which is worth reading if you are a blogger trying to work out how best to connect with people on these sorts of subjects, or even just how to talk to ānormalsā about it in day to day life without coming across as a judgy douche.
And there is no doubt Iāve been guilty of it on many occasions if I were to read through my post history, so itās definitely something I need to work on as well.
Finally, if you donāt own a TV or have written a post about not owning one, please donāt think I hate you or you are even wrong in anyway to have done so! I just thought Iād add my two pence to the conversation about it as itās not really one Iāve read in FI circles so far.
Well I think thatās enough from me on the subject, what do you guys think!?
Totally random aside: While searching for that Reddit thread I linked to above I came across this which made me laugh.
Notes:
- Which I totally agree with
- In fact it might well be 100% of
- Assuming you think a large amount of people not spending beyond their means is a good thing. If you want them spending and consuming so your investments in consumer related products and services continue to rise, maybe that is not the case
Discussion (40) Ā¬
I totally agree.
Personally I enjoy watching various documentaries and shows to relax with the wife. I sit in front of a monitor all day for work (and a fair bit at home) and I find watching TV helps my eyes relax (unlike reading, which I would love to do more of, but my eyes wonāt let me).
I do try and be frugal about it though ā and certainly donāt pay more than the annual TV license for the privilege.
Everything in moderation.
Everything in moderation ā Thatās exactly what Iām talking about FmC! No need to throw the baby out with the bath water. TV is essentially a good thing, itās just the excessive use and other bad attributes of it that need to be avoided.
Cheers!
Thank you, thank you, thank you for writing this rant! We have a TV and cable and do not intend to get rid. Hubby loves his gardening programmes & DIY. He doesnāt want to watch YouTube. He wants to be in the garden via the TV even when its chucking it with rain in gloomy February. TV can be a great escape mechanism and a way to de-stress/unwind.
Iāve often felt when reading some other FIRE blogs that our TV watching is almost a dirty little habit to be kept quiet about. Iām knackered when I get home from work after a 12 hr day, I am not really fit for self improvement at 9pm but nor am I ready for bed. TV helps me unwind (no horror shows for me!).
Ah really glad you liked it Tuppenny.
I was worried I would get a backlash to be honestā¦haha.
12 hour days sound bad! I know what mean about not feeling like self improvement after that. I guess I have roughly the same as leave my house around 7am and get home at 7pm every day. Itās certainly a struggle to do anything āproductiveā after that.
I donāt like horror shows either
Nicely put, TFS. Love this.
While I donāt watch half as much TV as I used to (I only have it on if Iām watching something in particular), it is amusing how the humble telly is viewed in such a negative manner in certain circles. Chances are that when I no longer need to work full time, Iāll be watching more, ie catching up on boxed sets, documentaries etc! Plus I like to put on the occasional DVD (yes I still have them!) to watch a favourite film.
Maybe Iām just old fashioned but watching stuff on the telly has got to be better than watching endless YouTube videos, many of questionable quality and content, for kids and adults? As you say, this is still āentertainmentā but on a smaller screen.
Iād go as far as to say that, Iām of the view that anyone who doesnāt own a tv but who will occasionally dip into BBCās iplayer should pay for the privilege ā itās not a free service, itās a subscription in the form of a tv licence!
The point you make about being socially inclusive is an important one, particularly I think for when TFS Jr goes to school. Thereās nothing worse than all the kids playing games based on some tv character or show and one kid doesnāt know about it so canāt join in or isnāt allowed to join in. Like the weather and sport, tv shows are a āsafeā topic to talk about with colleagues, down the pub etc.
Cheers for the links for further reading, Iāll be checking those out.
Hey weenie!
Yea that is a good point about BBC iPlayer actuallyā¦ non TV owners please stop sponging off of the rest of us. Daily Mail would have a field day with that one right!?
I knew youād be on my side from your various blog posts over the years to be honest, but thanks all the same for showing your support for the TV empathisers out there
Cheers!
We have three TVās but only one is plugged in. A bit of a waste probably but we seem to have accumilated these things and havenāt been able to get rid of them yet.
TV helps me to relax at the end of a long day working and after putting LMF Jr to bed. Itās nice having time where I donāt have to think about anything at all. I also beleive your point about people who say they donāt own a TV actually watching things via a different medium. Take the great Mr MM for instance who doesnāt have a TV but has a laptop with a FRICKING projector attached and a netflicks subscription. Iām not an expert on these things but I think a projector costs more than a TV (initial purchase cost + changing the bulbs.)
Hello GMF!!!
Iād sell those excess TVs and get any money back for them if you can (saying that we still have 2 Nintendo Wiiās sitting in our cupboards somewhere unsoldā¦. Hah!)
Yea totally agree with what you have to say there (obviously!). I didnāt want to throw any accusations at any particular bloggers in question so tried to keep the rant in a general sense, but yea most of the ones that write about having no TV do have an alternative method of watching moving images whether it is more or less ostentatious than a standard TV or not.
Cheers!
Quality rant, TFS. I donāt watch moving imagery anything like as much as I used to. I probably average no more than 3-5 hours/week across the lot. Truth is, Iām simply a bit bored by it all. It also helps that we have a HD projector which is just enough hassle to set up/turn on that we tend to use it to watch a film or two a week and little else. Projectors can be very cheap ā ours was under Ā£150. Thatās less than the TV licence which we no longer bother with.
But this is a golden age of TV. There is so much choice and much of it good quality and ad-free. Iāve simply become a bit jaded by seeing the same plot variations, casting choices and TV shows that consume days of time. Even the how to stuff and documentaries seem to take too long to get to the point.
Hi Chris,
Hah, that amuses quite a lot considering you run what essentially is a movie review blog there?!
But yeaā¦ I totally understand what you mean about the same plot variations and so on. I started to feel like that when I had a monthly cinema card (Ā£14.99/month at the time, absolute bargain if you went more than twice per month and didnāt indulge in any extra snacks or drinks!). It all gets āa bit sameyā very quickly, and I also agree about TV series nowadays.
I find the best thing to do to not be disappointed is to only watch 1 in every, say 10, box set drama āmust watchā series that you get recommended. Then the sameness tends to spread itself thin somewhat. We really enjoyed Broadchurch recently (good few years after it aired, dāoh) but have done our best to avoid Game of Thrones despite being ostracised in many office conversations about that much loved series. I just couldnāt be arsed with it to be honest, after having missed the first 3 series or soā¦
Some colleagues were shocked when I told them I read the first Game of Thrones book back in the 1997! But theyāre among my favourite books so I couldnāt not watch the shows!
I can understand that weenie. I canāt think of anything where Iāve read the book first and enjoyed the film/TV show more, just doesnāt tend to happen!
I havenāt had a TV in years, but it doesnāt stop me from watching a couple of hours a day on my laptop
With all the amazing shows on these days, anyone could throw away all their spare hours in front of the screen (while multitasking on facebook and instagramā¦). Like anything, it takes a bit of discipline and drive to make sure weāre also making time for more important endeavours.
Oh yesā¦ of course you could spend hours, just as many in front of a TV, on your laptop! I honestly think I could spend more because the content is more āright thereā and a bit more interactive, and the dopamine hit of clicking through on more and more Youtube vids is just better than watching something on boring old TV.
Agreed ā discipline is what it takes to get up to some more important stuff. And I guess that is my underlining point. If these ānon TVā people have that discipline despite having the ultimate distraction of a laptop with internetā¦ then I donāt think TV would have been much of a problem in the first place.
Cheers!
Loved it. There is a huge difference between watching the real housewives of Cheshire, BGT, and the like, and watching āWW2 in colourā. I could read about WW2 but I like to learn visually so TV all the way. Currently enjoying Panoramas āpolice under pressureā. I think the important thing is to not watch TV for the sake of itā¦.or for āsomething to doā
Hi QT,
Yea itās all about the whole deliberate living thing isnāt it? If a TV show is really adding value to your life then itās cool to watch it. If you are just watching Eastenders because thatās what youāve done 3 times a week (or however many times itās on nowadays!?) for the last 10 years, maybe itās time to re-evaluate that habit.
Having said thatā¦ I totally admit to watching BGTā¦ I love that show! One of my hopefully not too long list of guilty TV pleasures (Eurovision is another one but I missed it the last 2 years due to being otherwise engagedā¦ bah!)
Haha a heartwarming love story about a man and his TV
I liked this, when I first became really frugal actually the TV was sort of a crutch for weaning off of expensive hobbies and re-energising after a day searching for better bank accounts! I needed it at first.
Thereās even this article that suggests maybe you should also get a TV in your room for more, how shall we sayā¦ quality time.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2643988/Got-TV-bedroom-Youre-twice-likely-good-sex.html
Glad you liked it!
That is a fair point about being a very cheap āhobbyā compared to some others, although obviously there are plenty of other cheap (or even net positive) ones out there which are worth looking at in addition.
Haha, love the idea of that article although agh you made me click on a link to the DailyFail! Damn you!
Haha oh God I apologise profusely
This is why you should keep watching TV! The Daily Mail is a blight on society and who knows what would happen if more people started reading it!
On a positive note though, if you have Netflix thereās some great documentaries on there (Not vegan ones I promise). Some favourites of mine were: Living on one dollar, The true cost, minimalism, Prescription Thugs, Blackfish and OMG GMO. Really worthwhile views about every day things we take for granted!
Thanks for the reccs, will try to check some of them out as we recently signed up to the Netflix free trial, although have yet to even use it
We were looking for Broadchurch series 3 and couldnāt figure a way to search Netflix without having an account, not sure if we were being thick or whether they really are that stupid that they donāt let non users see all the lovely content they are missing out on!?!?
Great rant TFS! Have to say I find the balance between being an arse (and telling people what to do) and talking about what I do (itās all me me me!) really hard. I kinda cheat though because loads of other people (including you) have been writing great blogs for ages so I follow the lead!
Hi YoungFIGuy,
Yea itās a fine balance and definitely one that I havenāt mastered either thatās for sure. Something we all need to think about a bit more as we go about our daily āpreachingā of the ways of the FI.
Cheers!
Totally agree! Whilst I manage on a ten year old 32 inch tv with a burn up the front from a candle incident, I wouldnāt be without a TV. I love the BBC for starters ā Blue Planet was a masterpiece. I only have a basic TV package but have Netflix too. I donāt watch tv that much but it is very cheap entertainment!
Yea exactly, just because you have one doesnāt mean you have to watch it 24/7. Itās nice to have the option though isnāt it.
Cheers!
Yep I agree with this. I find the whole āyou cant have thisā rather preachy to be honest. Great, if not having a TV has helped you get towards FI faster then woo hoo for you! But if you enjoy your TV then you should keep your TV! Surely the whole point of FI is freedom (wow I never knew I felt so strongly about owning a TV!)
Right on!
Yea itās all about working out what is truly valuable to you and spending where it matters. I would really miss my TV if it broke down and I didnāt replace it, even though I donāt really actively watch it that much. Mrs TFS would have a nervous breakdown I think! If that makes us sad or whateverā¦ so be it!
Cheers
Nice rant
Iām one of the refuseniks, it was the ads I never found a solution to, although starting recording and starting watching a quarter of an hour behind and using FF was the best. Online adbusting is much easier ā ublock origin, pi-hole and Ghostery ground online addery pretty well.
I do lose touch with many TV cultural references, it seems TV series have improved notably since I canned my TV from what people say. And I do miss the TV news. And it helps that I loathe all sport, if you like sport then living without broadcast TV of some sort will be a drag. Each to their own!
it seems TV series have improved notably
Hmm not sure about that, on average at least. There is a lot more nowadays and most of it is shite. Reminds me of a post you wrote about the way music has gone since the digital age, lots more crap to sift through to find the good stuff!
Each to their own indeed, and you are certainly never one of the ones who has come across as preachy about owning a TV.
Cheers
Great article..
Q.āHow do you know if someone doesnāt own a TV?ā
A.āThey will tell youā
Haha!!!!
I like the idea of just making it a bit harder to turn on the TV. I read on another FI blog that some chap put his TV in the basement work-room, so turning it on was āintentionalā and not just a flop on the sofa and turn it on ā made it a bit easier to just pick up a book or talk instead. Iām going to try to unplug or put a cover on ours, as have no basement. Of course, then you also have the problem of the phones and iPadsā¦..
Hi RB,
Yea that is a good idea, and one I would not discourage if you want to go down that route.
Cheers for the great idea!
I Loved it. There is a huge difference between watching the real housewives of Cheshire, BGT, and the like, and watching āWW2 in colourā. I could read about WW2 but I like to learn visually so TV all the way.
Regards
MJ
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I totally admit to watching BGTā¦ I love that show! One of my hopefully not too long list of guilty TV pleasures (Eurovision is another one but I missed it the last 2 years due to being otherwise engagedā¦ bah!)
100% agree! Whilst I manage on a five-year-old 32-inch tv with a spend the front from a candle incident, I wouldnāt be without a TV. I only have a basic TV package but have Netflix too. I donāt watch tv that much but itās rock bottom entertainment!
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