question time: would you do anything for money?
These guys* would probably do owt for cash 🙂
I met up with a few old friends the other day, some who I haven’t seen for quite a while. Everyone seems to be doing very well for themselves which is always nice to see, however I could not help notice that my world view has started to differ quite drastically from some of them. I’m not sure whether this is a new phenomenon or it has always been baked into our own personalities, it’s been too long for me to remember if I’m perfectly honest, but now I’m into all of this FI malarkey, it was most definitely noted.
One interesting thing came up was of one of our friends who wasn’t actually present being offered a job for double the salary, who then turned down that offer. I was like… “Yea, rock on man, don’t sell out just for the money, stick with doing what you love (presuming he loves it).” 1
However the general consensus was that he was an idiot!
One comment in fact was along the lines of “If you doubled my salary, I would pretty much do anything”. I know people say those sort of things casually when they don’t have to make the decision for themselves so it’s to be taken with a pinch of salt, but I think the intention and motivations behind it is all too real. This comment was very telling because it was from someone who is almost definitely on a high London salary already. He either hasn’t worked out the concept of enough just yet, or is running a very spendy budget and so could therefore do with the extra income gain a bit of breathing room, or maybe a bit of both. I think this is the conventional wisdom most people run their professional lives by, which I also think is a shame.
So my question to you today is:
Would you do anything for money?
I’ll answer it for you myself first, and you can probably guess the answer and that is a big resounding NO. One of the best things about being FI or even just being on the path and having some savings in the bank is that it gives you the power to walk away from something you don’t feel is right for you or your principles. The brilliant 1950’s advert ermine linked to here says it all: savings allow you to walk tall, because you can walk away.
scammers, con men and hustlers need not apply
It baffles me that there are people out there who continually do morally wrong things for money. I’m not talking about those that are desperate and down and outs, I’m talking about those that already have large swathes of cash, and may have already been caught breaking the law, and yet still repeat offend. I am sure there are many psychological issues that can be blamed here but on pure logical reasoning it often just does not make plain sense. There are people out there who go to a great effort devising creative schemes and recruiting large teams to implement their dastardly plans to con people out of money, and I often just think, for all that effort why not just set up a legitimate business? OK there is a bit more red tape and hoops to jump through but these are clearly motivated individuals so why the hell not? 🙂
There was a classic example I caught briefly on a watchdog or similar type of programme where a “businessman” had set up a cold calling company pretending to be Sky and flogging (fake?) insurance on their sky boxes. If you have the skills to set all of that up and work out all the training and logistics, why not just set up a real call centre FFS!?
Maybe some actually thrive on the con, that is the whole point. They are getting one over on society, those barstards. Weirdly, I can kind of relate to this, it is one of the reasons why I have liked gambling (getting one over on the bookies) and there is an element of it to FI, “cheating” the system by which everyone else (society) runs their lives and making work optional. However they are at completely different ends of the moral compass, I am sure you will agree!
(don’t) show me the money!
Going back to my friend who turned down the job I can think of a few reasons why you might want to do that. The main one is that you love what you do already, so why change? It is a very small minority of us who have found something like that so once you have found it you probably want to keep it within your slippery grasp for as long as possible. I came across an old Paul Graham article on the very subject this week which has some excellent points on this. Take a read if you have the time as there are a lot of themes relating to FI in there, but this particular section stood out to me:
…and it’s hard to get paid for doing work you love. There are two routes to that destination:
The organic route: as you become more eminent, gradually to increase the parts of your job that you like at the expense of those you don’t.
The two-job route: to work at things you don’t like to get money to work on things you do.
I am guessing my friend, who has been at his job for quite a while now, has managed to get himself at least someway down route one there (the organic route). I also know his job allows him a lot of flexibility so if he ever did want to try route two then I am sure that is always available. This also brings us onto the fact that with the double salary he will most likely be doing near enough double the work. Not guaranteed but the adage there is no such thing as a free lunch definitely applies here. And never forget double salary doesn’t mean double take home pay!
He definitely sounds like someone that FI would be interesting to, maybe I should get back in touch soon! 😉
So what would you do for money? How far would you go and how hard would you work? How far would you bend yo’ principles fo’ the green?
Let me know what you think! 🙂
*This image is trademarked and all of that junk. Copyright for Universal Pictures (I presume). If you want me to remove it then get in touch! Thanks!
Notes:
- Actually I think I just said “Good for him” as I am admittedly rather English and not a cool California surfer dude. ↩
As Meatloaf says “I’d do anything for love, but I won’t do that”, which always makes me snigger…
I’d not do anything illegal, as the downside of being caught is too great, and nothing very immoral, though I’ve not got a long list of social concern to rule out the arms trade etc.
As a work to live person, I have a strong disinclination for working longer hours or having more stress. My ramping demands for overtime, being away from home or stress would quickly exhaust any fund well before I was working twice as hard.
And the “jam tomorrow” view of having a nasty time now to reap future rewards doesn’t appeal too much. But being mildly frugal, and milking the contract system you can still get the jam without current stress
Hi John,
I’m with you on the overtime, and obviously the stress thing as well!
My company kindly agreed to pay people overtime to get unrealistic project demands out the door on time sometime earlier in the year. Not surprisingly, I didn’t even get asked if I wanted to help out on that… I think that speaks volumes… hah 🙂
I like you final sentence, that is pretty much exactly what I am striving for.
Cheers!
In the case of your friend, it clearly depends what the new job was about. I would not do “anything” for money, but taking a similar job that pays double? Why not, in particular now that I’m getting really close to FI and I would be willing to some significant level of sacrifice for anything that would get me faster to my goal.
double my salary to do something where I would be breaching the law? Of course not. But a similar job, or even a different job where I can learn new stuff, or even a job I know I won’t enjoy, but knowing I’ll be out of it in 2 years… sure, I’d take it
He is a shrewd cookie so I imagine he has a very sweet deal in terms of actual hours worked for the salary where he is, and I would imagine the new job was much more formal and so may have even worked out as a lower hourly rate after tax. All speculation of course.
I can see why you would want to do it if very near FI, the final push so to speak. I am still very far off full retirement and would like to enjoy my time while I’m still young(ish).
Haha, well I didn’t expect anyone to actually reply saying they’d break the law to earn money of course. But it was fun/interesting to write about such dodgy geezers that are no doubt out there.
Cheers!
Lately i started to consider time being one of the most precious resource, way up than money. And so many other. Money are important, but not the most important. So, is one to be admired.
And by the way, in the last year i changed so much, and my financial education often kick in, especially in this month, when everyone around want just to spend spend spend. Hihi. Merry christmas everyone.
Merry Christmas to you as well George!
We have spent a fair bit this year but probably still not that much compared to say 5 years ago. The December expenses update will reveal all anyway 🙂
Anything? Well, I wouldn’t become an assassin for double the income. Work a few more hours at my current job for double the income? Sure, but even then, not many more than a FEW more hours, not double.
I agree with you Norm in principle. Although if you offered me double the salary to go back full time right now, I am not sure I would take it. Seriously. I want to traverse away from being reliant on an employer as quickly as possible and I think I can do that more quickly by creating my own work rather than saving up another (say) £40,000 per year.
Cheers!
When I look at a new job offer I’ll think about the pay/(hour including travel) and pay/(hour doing something unpleasant). If the hours are considerably more, I think your friend has made an easy call. There is no amount of money you could pay me to make cold sales calls, but I would consider a physically hard or dirty job, if the price was right.
I think there is a culture of never enough in (bits of) London. In my office (middling-high London salaries) there are very few people who talk as if they have figured out ‘enough’. My boss’s kids are leaving home and he is planning to buy a bigger house so there is a driveway so he can buy Harley-D, WTF. The couple of people who have figured it out have retired early (sometimes as much as three whole years off 65!!!), and still come back and do consulting work.
Hi Emma,
That’s a great way to look at these sort of things rationally.
I’ve only had 1 job for the last 10+ years so have never really had the opportunity to properly analyze such a situation! I think I’d do a similar thing if I ever get the chance.
I’m totally with you on the last paragraph. We had an office meeting the other day about “how to get promoted” i.e. how to get a pay rise. I found it quite bizarre, although maybe I am already near the top of the pay pile as a dinosaur at my company, I highly doubt it now that I’ve taken a recent 33% voluntary pay cut!
It’s just a totally different mindset isn’t it. Work to buy stuff rather than work to buy your time back, and that carrys on well into retirement age for most people it seems.
I’ve still not found what I really really love to work at, although I’ve enjoyed everywhere I’ve worked. I think I’m too much of an all-rounder perhaps. I have a high education and a broad range of skills, so I do wonder whether there is even one career path that would really suit me and therefore offer such a chance to do something more for double the money… Who knows what the future holds though, I helped my husband develop over many years and he’s now on almost double the salary he was earning not long after we first started going out… He generally loves what he does, but now at this level, it’s getting really difficult to get promotions without very specific experience. What to do?!
I think we both struggle with that sort of thing then, I just get bored too quickly. It sounds stupid saying that as I’ve been at my job over 10 years, but I’ve been learning new stuff pretty much the whole time. I do feel I might be coming to the end of what I can realistically learn in my area before having a wholesale change.
Who knows, maybe I’ll go into the plumbing business seeing as the recent bathroom refit went quite well? 🙂
I wouldn’t rule out a complete change in path but would like some more money in the FI pot before doing anything like that. As usual, savings and investments give you options… ACE!!
If I were asked this question 20 years ago, I reckon the answer would have been ‘yes, I’d do anything!’
Ask me now and the answer is likely to be ‘no’. Depends what it is, if it’s something I can apply my skills. If I had to learn something completely new, I would end up stressing that I would be good enough to command that sort of salary.
Double my salary for the same job? How very tempting!
I’d do some extra hours, but not double. I would do weekends too, short-term. I like the work/life balance I have now and am not so desperate for cash (or FIRE) to upset that too radically.
I agree on the age thing. When you are a young pup you have more energy and are more willing to put the hours in. I don’t understand how people in their 40’s and 50’s do all the late office hours and they have kids as well. It would kill me!
I would definitely take double the salary for doing exactly what I’m doing now… who wouldn’t? 🙂
But doing any extra hours, I am seriously against that right now. I’ve tasted a bit of freedom and I don’t want to give any of those hours back. There has already been talk of me being paid some overtime to come back in some extra days when I should be off and needless to say I am dead against the idea!
Cheers 🙂
Mmm.. the lure of double salary — I have never been in that position.
Now, I am more interested in the job content than the money. Having been in the “live to work” mentality for so long, I have worked stupid hours, weekends and through the night to get things done for The Man and been paid poorly to do so compared to the ‘London salaries’.
Now, I want to enjoy the job not be a slave to the money. The whole point of FI for me, to chose to work rather than have to work.
The nearest I ever got was a company who got in touch with me and were offering literally double my salary. I made a right hash of the phone interview and never got any further than that. Probably worked out for the best as I wasn’t really qualified for the job!
I’ve done plenty of late nights similar to yourself for no overtime and pretty crap pay. It’s only in recent years I’ve been paid an OK wage and as soon as that has happened I’ve just looked for a way to get out… haha.
Within the bounds of legal employment (i.e. – no dressing up in skimpy dresses and streetwalking, or robbing banks) I would seriously consider most employment that doubled my current salary. We’re less than 6 years from FI on my current salary, and (ignoring taxes) that would bring us down to about 3.
That’s a short enough time period that I can put my head down and sprint to the finish line, and that’s really my game anyway: short bursts of productivity. I shine for the first three years on the job, then need to be looking elsewhere. With no kids yet, I’d probably jump at most career opportunities with that kind of coin attached.
Yeah, it’s selling out, but it’s selling out with a purpose. 🙂
That’s a shame DBF… I was hatching a brilliantly evil plan to rob a bank wearing ballerina costumes that I was going to draft you in for! I guess I’ll have to can it for now 😀
I’ve definitely turned down a promotion (after I left my employer no less), a job that required the equivalent of “selling my soul”. The *prestige* of the job meant the corporation would have access to me 24/7. I’d have to be “on” at all times. Forget having a personal life, outside interests, and a successful marriage. I would have lost it all for a bigger paycheque, a parking spot and a four-wall box we call an office, complete with rented plant & artwork…no thanks.
It’s madness that so many people think that would sound like a good career move/life choice!!! Totally insane I tells ya!!! 🙂
Interesting quote about the 2 routes to getting paid to do what you love. I’ve definitely incorporated elements of #1 to make my job something I truly enjoy. However, I still would not do it for free so on to number 2, using that income to allow me to do whatever I find interesting and am passionate about for a while regardless of the income implications.
I think there will be such a minority that would do something for free. I guess that’s what volunteering is!? People who say they would do their job for free despite getting paid thousands of pounds/dollars for… I am highly suspicious of those claims 🙂
When you realize what you want in life, you understand that no price tag is worth giving it up. I’m at my current job – not because it’s the absolute best (it’s actually pretty good), and not because I have gobs of money (but I make a decent wage), but because it gives me exactly what I really want out of life.
I know I want flexibility and freedom from my desk. I get that at work. I was toying with the idea of applying for a job with a substantial jump in pay and decided against it. It’s hard to turn down that sort of money when you’re being offered it. Knowing what you want and sticking to your values takes strength – which is hard when you have a wad of cash tempting you.
Sounds like you have found a nice balance Kim. Thanks for the comment!
I can relate. I just had an interview for a job I was interested in. During the interview I realized I would have to be crazy to take this position. It was double the drive time, same pay and much more responsibility. I kindly thanked them for their time and for the opportunity but kindly turned it down and left there content knowing I have options. Financial Independence makes us do things most will never understand.
Sounds like a no brainer that one Michael 🙂
I agree, from a “normal” perspective some FI folks (or even just people with enough savings to give them options) decisions must look very odd. As odd as normal peoples decisions look to us, I guess 😉
It’s hard to say! I gotta look into what that “double my salary” thing entails (obviously!).
But at the point where I’m at – 24 years old, keen on paying off student loans, minimal responsibilities (no kids or pets, just myself and my partner to keep alive) and building my nest egg – if someone offered to double my income, I would honestly be 80-90% interested in investigating. I would hustle my ass off for a couple years at least – build up my networth and then peace!
I guess I’m more “prone” because I have less responsibilities and can take on more risks now 😛
Hi Jaymee,
You are right, you are definitely at the stage of life where you can work your boots off to get your salary up as soon as possible. I guess it’s just knowing when is enough and trying not to get caught up in the whole cycle or more, more more! You sound like a, erm… smart woman 🙂 though and have a plan in place so I reckon you have all of that sorted out.
Thanks for the comment!
Hello. It all depends on the conditions. But I think maybe I did.