should I stay or should I go? plus introducing… TFS Merch!
Bit of a random update really but just thought I’d put it out there what’s been going around in my head over the last few months
is it time to finally say goodbye to the 9-5?
Here are my reasons:
- We’ve got a pretty big safety net of “liquid” savings of nearly 100K (OK much of this isn’t truly liquid, but at least half of it definitely is).
- I’m smashing it on the main side hustle of MB/EW betting (yes yes… I do not want to be relying on this long term, and not even really in the short term, but the fact remains the money keeps flowing in).
- I have started a new hustle with Amazon Merch (see first design below!). Obviously getting a bit ahead of myself here but I reckon with no full time work I could build this up to a decent income stream.
- I also have a handful of other ideas of software projects which could generate money, again I just need the time to actually work on them though.
- Looking back at my initial goal when I started the blog, I am really not that far off of hitting it, and I said I would quit my job when I hit that goal, which has made me start to think about it.
- We just got paid a 6 month bonus at work. They normally do a yearly bonus which is paid in July but it’s just re-synced to the actual calendar year. I was planning on staying till June then taking the bonus and seeing whether I wanted to hand in my notice then, but now the bonus has been paid it has bought the whole thing to mind much earlier than expected. Do I really want to stay a whole year from now (when the next yearly bonus will be paid) before deciding upon it again?
Obviously there are many reasons to stay as well, such as:
- I now have a child to think about as well, which I didn’t when I first started all of this and made those initial plans, so really I shouldn’t take those initial plans into account all that much.
- Home working situation – I don’t really have a home office space, and to be honest even if I did it is really hard to work knowing the little one is downstairs playing and having fun. And I think I would need more of a separation between “work” and “home” in general if I’m honest. I have an idea of how to get around this though (and crucially it would be cheap/practically free), but it’s something worth bearing in mind at least.
- I am already working part time, so already have a great work/life balance compared to most people.
- I’ve just put in for a pay rise, so if I get one and it’s half decent, it will greatly enhance the chances I stay.
- In addition to the above, I can execute my main cash side hustle while at work so it is almost like getting paid twice. It seems a bit of a fallacy to basically turn money down here!!!
However, especially in relation to that last point, money is not everything and I do wonder if I might be happier just being out there on my own, getting out of my comfort zone, and really doing some entrepreneurial shit.
And let’s face it, how cool would it be to just totally set your own schedule? If I wanted to see Mrs T and TFS Jr in the morning for a couple of hours before “going to work” I would be able to, and also shoot out for a run whenever I feel like it rather than have to cram it into my lunch break. And it would get rid of 3 hours of commuting per day, which would free an immense amount of time and may even mean I am not totally knackered all the time due to having 6-7 hours of sleep most nights when I know I should be getting 8.
amazon merch
Speaking of the next side hustle, I have uploaded my first design and it seemed fitting that it should probably just be a theFIREstarter related one to get me up and running. At the risk of sounding extremely big headed and assuming people might actually want to spend their hard-earned on crap like this (which I don’t!) but on the off chance any readers over the years ever did want something along these lines, here it is:
It’s available in 5 different colours, I’d obviously recommend the Orange for maximum impact and getting people talking about the T-Shirt so you can then evangelise the concepts of FIRE to them 😀
Alternatively, if you wanted something but don’t like the actual design, please give me you feedback and I can update it!
Here’s the deal: I need to fill 10 slots and sell one of each design to break out into the next “Tier” when I get far more slots and I can then try out far more different things to see what sticks. So for these first 10 slots I am pretty much happy to just create bespoke designs for people so I get a guaranteed sale and so fill their “at least one sale” criteria
I’ve also priced the T-Shirt at the lowest possible price where I am still getting some sort of commision so it’s a bargain basement £12.99 1.
I will price the first 10 at this same price as well.
So if there is anything you want me to tweak on the above design, let me know and I will upload something to a new slot (or just overwrite that one, if no one likes it… haha).
Alternatively if there is something you fancy having on a T-Shirt that is nothing to do with the TFS blog… that’s cool as well!j
Just let me know what you’d like, and if it’s remotely reasonable* I will custom design your idea for you, put it up on Amazon Merch and send you the link. That’s as long as you have a genuine intention of buying it of course! But if I do a design for you and you decided you didn’t like my interpretation, that’s cool.
*i.e. not horrendously offensive which Amazon will penalise me for, or some really complicated design, I am still quite a beginner with the design tools so far. Also you can use copyright/trademarked stuff so don’t ask me to say do a fake Nike T-Shirt or whatever… haha!
Hopefully in this way you guys are helping me out get this hustle off the ground, but you are also getting a low cost but nice custom made T-Shirt for yourselves, and everyone comes away happy.
So let me know what you’d like!
And of course… should I stay or should I go?!?!?!?
Notes:
- Yes I know this is quite a lot compared to a T-Shirt from the charity shop, but where else you gonna get a rare or bespoke design for that price, right!? 🙂 ↩
Discussion (61) ¬
Doooo iiiit, I’m likely biased but if you’ve got a lot of plans for ways to make money when your time is your own you should go for it. Because why not right? You can always get another job later!
Kieran recently posted…Embrace Tenacity Over Perfection
Haha thank you for your thoughts Kieran, from someone who’s “been there done that” your view point is not surprising but it’s certainly one to pay attention to.
I guess it’s just the fear of the unknown. I’ve been at my job 15 years FFS!
I don’t think even having another 100K in the bank would make me feel any safer pulling that rip cord, so it does beg the question of why not just do it now rather than later.
I’ll definitely hear the result of the pay rise request though before making any further decision on it.
Cheers!
Hi Firestarter – enjoy reading your posts. Don’t normally comment though. Personally I would stay put. There is a lot of economic uncertainty at the moment, your T shirt hustle is unproven (how many T-shirt’s to replace your steady corporate income each month?), your gambling side hustle might run out of steam if you’re too good, plus you have time at work to pursue this !
Enjoy your part time main career, see how the T-shirt’s go and in the meantime keep stacking it away.
Hi Favourite aunt,
Thanks for taking the time to comment, really appreciate hearing the differing views. In all honesty I think I will take your advice… but there is just that itch niggling away at me right now 🙂
Thanks again and glad you enjoy reading the blog!
I’m a bit confused (though as a quite recent reader I may well have missed some important change in the plan – if so could you point me towards the posts I need to go back and read for the full picture please?).
One of your original posts talks about £10k pa of expenditure being doable with £100k invested and a side hustle.
More recent posts seem to involve circa £100k invested but £40k – ish of annual expenditure (I’m looking at the 2018 target in your December update post)?
Is your expenditure going to plummet? Or has the plan changed?
I’m not sure I’d refer to the £100k as liquid funds if that’s a key income generator for retirement. Otherwise, what you’re proposing is what’s generally known as “packing your job in”, not “FIRE” as we know it?
Hi Jo,
Apologies for the confusion! The 10k post was pretty much just a thought experiment for myself to hammer out what was possible, rather than part of any plan. Although please bear in mind 10k was based on 1 person whereas 40k is 2 people (and a toddler as well now)… I guess the moral of the story here is that things change 🙂 especially over the course of 5 years.
I have written about updates to my thinking on this whole FIRE shenanigans, and our long term plans on many occasion but here are a couple to hopefully clarify (although these are also now quite old so don’t hold me to anything I’ve written in those either 😉 )
http://thefirestarter.co.uk/long-term-plans/
http://thefirestarter.co.uk/alternative-plans-fi-new-definition-frugally-independent/
“what you’re proposing is what’s generally known as “packing your job in”, not “FIRE” as we know it?” – I agree! The original plan as you have pointed out yourself was never to achieve “FIRE” as we know it, but to “pack my job in” and try something else.
Maybe I have chosen a bad name for the blog but the pun was just too good to turn down 🙂
Cheers
I was gonna say ‘yes retire’, but seeing as you then say you’re part-time and you can MB from work, on that basis I’d say give it another year. Then you can spend the next year putting in place leaving plans – i.e. start to get your most promising software project on the go so it’s ready.
You could always ask for a further 10-20% reduction in hours too.
On the home working issue I had a great time at my local co-working space over Summer when I was back living at my Dad’s between houses. No co-working space locally now I’ve moved, but that really worked well. It was only £140 for a month of all-day access. I think two days a week was £40. On that last rate you could escape 2 days a week for hardly any outlay.
Hi Karl,
Thanks for the comment! I do basically agree with your stance I think. But there are a couple of assumptions in there that are unfortunately not quite correct:
“i.e. start to get your most promising software project on the go so it’s ready.” – I am pretty maxed out with side hustles already and have literally like zero free time left to start anything new up… so that one is a total no go unless I quit.
“You could always ask for a further 10-20% reduction in hours too.” – I know there is the old don’t ask/don’t get thing, but I seriously doubt they’d go for this. If I asked it would have to be on the terms that I would leave unless they gave it to me, which is a pretty bold move to make if I wasn’t really sure that I wanted to leave unless they did…
That’s awesome to know about the co-working thing… 2 days for £40 sounds incredibly cheap!!! I will check out options around here. It would be really cool to hang out with other entrepreneurial minded people and get some other “work friends” which I think I would miss once not in a traditional office/company setup.
Thanks for commenting, nice one!
Consider the library as a “work” place if you don’t have a local co-working space. I like spending time there, it’s QUIET, warm and helps you draw a line between home and work.
Part-time + MB sounds like a great combination. Are there any big long-term expenses that you’re not thinking of? Like, say, sending your kid to college paid by you, or something else? If not, then you’re ready to go 🙂
Personally, I’d want to hit my FIRE target first while working and then retire. And to be honest, software pays so well nowadays. 5 years to go!
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That is a great idea Foxy!
The only draw back I can see would be I would want to multi-screen and I can’t imagine they would take too kindly to me setting up a few monitors in the corner haha 🙂
But yea if I ever wanted to just go and get some peace and quiet and do blogging or maybe some programming that did not require a multi screen that is a great idea and one I have not thought of (Also there is one about 10 minutes walk from me so even better!)
Are there any big long-term expenses that you’re not thinking of? – Errmmm… yea probably!!!! Haha!
The sensible thing is to stay put I know. It’s that whole “What if?” thing you know?
“Personally, I’d want to hit my FIRE target first while working and then retire. And to be honest, software pays so well nowadays. 5 years to go!” – Well yea but I am already part time which is pushing it out further… I feel like have a nice balance of course, but kinda feel like I should stop sitting on the fence and commit to either gunning for proper Early FI or just drop out of the rat race now and try to make my own way… hence this post 🙂
Cheers for your thoughts mate, always welcome!
I think you’re winning either way. Your current set up seems really optimal in terms of work-life balance (apart from that 3 hour commute). But it also sounds like you’re itching for a bit of a change.
Coming from my own circumstances right now, I’m loving being out of an office, working on my little Etsy shop, doing some freelancing, and generally living life on my own schedule. If you think chances are high you could get another job / contracts in the same field, and/or make a mint through your current side hustles, then why not give it a go?
Mindy recently posted…January 2019 update: From Bangkok to Blighty to Bangkok
“But it also sounds like you’re itching for a bit of a change.” – Yep this is the key point. 15 years in the same company!
Your situation sounds awesome… I’m well jel and you are also definitely winning as well by the sounds of it 🙂
Cheers!
Hey TFS – I love this idea of taking some time off.
But I have a sneaking suspicion the golden handcuffs will get you….
Ms ZiYou recently posted…Matt – Optimise your life – Shares his journey as a male ally and some news! #financialfeminist
Waaaah… Ms ZiYou… I think you are wise beyond your years…!!! 🙂
I’m with Mindy in that I think you’re in a win-win situation, staying or going. I would be tempted to stay for at least for the next bonus – as you say, you can do your MB while you work so you are getting paid twice, plus it’s another year of the firm paying into your pension plan, so more free money – when you go freelancing, you won’t get that employer match.
Whatever you do, good luck, not that you need it, in particular with the EW betting! 🙂
Thanks weenie, I think I will capitulate to that OMYS like you suggest, but it’s probably for the best in my case 🙂
Cheers
Hi TFS
Killing the 3 hour commute would be good, maybe worth putting that in the balance and making the jump. Hopefully you might be able to pick another job up if you do, and then find yourself not sleeping so peacefully! Still, given the MB, looks like you can live with a bit of risk.
I signed up to EWS, so thanks for your guide! I just wondered, on the EW tool, where it shows a good % rating, and it is showing a Win and Place Exchange on Betfair, do you place the bet on just the allocated bookie (eg Bet365) or place it on Betfair? Or do you bet on both (i.e. on Bet365 and Betfair, but not not laying on the latter)? I wasn’t sure on that.
Hi Jim
You place the bet on just the allocated bookie, ie Bet365.
Thanks Weenie. I did both on my first race, placed my EW bets on both 365 and Betfair Sportsbook just to be on the safe side. Of course my 10-1 pick romped home in first place, so now I’m addicted.
Hi Jim,
Yea the commute is definitely a LOT of time I’d get back, but it’s not all dead time as I do some blogging, blog reading, book reading, and podcast listening. If I quit I may actually never get any time to do that due to being at home with the toddler…. haha. Anyway it’s definitely something to factor in, especially getting on a train at 7am in the dead of winter, it’s not exactly fun.
Yep as Weenie says you just place the each way bet at the bookie. Please read up a bit more on the subject before placing any further bets! I wouldn’t want you to mess up and end up losing money by not doing things properly.
Best of luck with it though.
I like the orange and navy shirt (complementary colours!)* but it looks too… blocky at the moment. Are you able to change the design to be the text and starbursts only, removing the rectangle background?
* DW had four months off work to recover from burnout before starting a new job and went to a watercolour painting course at the local college. She’s now dragged me along and we’re doing an evening course together. This week’s lesson was on colour theory.
Yea I can give that a go!!! I will do it sometime this week, upload and see what you think.
Colour theory sounds interesting, will check it out!
Cheers!
Grrr! How do you get accepted on to Merch? They turned me down…
Hi Laura,
I just applied and they accepted me, so sorry I have no tips to give on that! I guess having my own website may have helped? Have you got a blog or anything?
Cheers
There’s never a right time to make the jump but if there was ever one which was sensible and immitgated the risk then this would be it. What is it going to take for you to make the leap? 500k in the bank, 600k? I feel like you are looking for someone to tell you it’s not a good idea as you are already angling to the golden handshake/payrise.
You’re currently doing a 3 hr commute a day when you are in office. The financial burden of the actual commute and the monetary value of your time must be mind blowing. If you think of that time back or calculate your actual salary based upon your commute time/time to get ready for work etc then I imagine your day rate is relatively low. As a result is there anything closer to home or could you set up as a contractor/freelancer? From what I can see you have a skills set which is in high demand right now so this feels like a no brainer to me.
I left my Head of online marketing role over 3 years ago now and financially and lifestyle wise i’ve gone from strength to strength. I split my time between running my own educational websites and freelancing (I emailed you about this) but some of the opportunities i’ve had wouldn’t have been possible if I hadn’t left my job. The world is a big place and I feel you would benefit from the exposure to new people, opportunities and ideas. The actual mind share of working and the psychological burden of trying to run things is just too much.
You already have a profitable side hustle, you have a widely demanded skills set and have a healthy amount of cash in the bank. Freelancing (You may even be able to get your current employee back as your first client), your side hustles, future plans and reducing the expenses from commuting would easily see you set. You’re more than set to give it a go and i’m not sure there’s anything but your fear of the unknown holding you back.
I think you need a fresh break or you’ll keep coming back to this idea over and over.
Ryan
PS: I left my role 3 weeks before my wife gave birth. Children actually inspire and motivate you.
Hi Ryan,
Wow… what an inspiring comment! Loved it from start to finish!
“i’m not sure there’s anything but your fear of the unknown holding you back.” – This hits the nail right on the head.
“What is it going to take for you to make the leap? 500k in the bank, 600k?” – Yep as I said in the post I don’t think I would feel any different in one years time with another (say) 40K in the bank so it does seem a little pointless waiting. I definitely don’t want to wait for 500K because that will be in another 10-15 years and by that time I will definitely be institutionalised!
By the way… massive apologies for not getting back to you about your email!!!! I will find it now and reply.
Many many thanks again for taking the time to comment… really appreciated that one.
I’d be staying, but that is just my cautious nature. I’d be stress testing all of the side hustles, and probably concluding that they are all potentially zero earners, so where would that leave me? How well will i sleep at night in that situation? Having a reliable 9-5 income is a massive plus and for my mentality a great reassurance. Of course, I’m never going to be a Richard Branson or Elon Musk – i’m simply not prepared to take the risk to win big.
Take your time to make any decision, you will make the right choice for you.
PS – you sound a bit like Gerald Ratner with your t-shirt campaign, and i hate to say it but at £12.99 i’d be wanting three items for that price. Let us know when the sale starts! Seriously, all the best with the project and i’m sure with your drive and determination you’ll be selling them by the box load to the eskimos before you know it.
Thanks for your thoughts as usual Kid Cocoa, very much appreciated. Sleeping soundly at night is very important to me! And having to potentially dip into savings to pay for living costs sounds scary as hell. Even not being able to save as much as we do because I don’t have the main income any more also sounds scary. However I think the T-Shirt thing is potentially a really big earner if you put in some up front work (See Huw at FFBF who built up an immense Kindle Publishing income – I see this as a similar sort of business really in that you put in a load of work up front and it grows exponentially – http://financiallyfreeby40.com/ )
Haha at the T-Shirt comments, yea I didn’t really sell it very well did I?
I can’t sell them for any less though otherwise I would get negative commission (i.e. a loss) on every sale. Everyone has their own price point and if that’s too high for you that’s cool though, just pass on it.
Cheers
I’d say your work/life balance is pretty good right now compared with most people. Perhaps see if you could take off a few weeks unpaid and try before you buy? It looks very tempting to pull the cord but you need to keep a cool head and not make a snap decision.
“you need to keep a cool head and not make a snap decision.” – This is great advice David… thank you! If/when I make a decision it will be well considered, that is for sure.
I guess I’ve already had a fair few weeks off due to the part time gig, so kind know what it will be like, but the thing is I haven’t actually done anything like what I would be planning on doing if I actually quit my job, so in that respect… you are right I really should try before i buy. I think maybe the best thing would be to keep on one more year but then ring fence a few weeks of my time off to do exactly what you suggest, and see how I get one with it.
Thanks… great idea!
It’s all well and good for us all to shout “Do-it, do-it, do-it” from the virtual sidelines, but ultimately it has to be your decision (along with your wife’s). As you said, there are upsides and downsides to quitting and in the end only you can decide which ones are the most important to you. I love the t-shirt side hustle btw – keep us posted on how it goes.
Hi Mrs W,
Thank you for your thoughtful comment!
Don’t worry, I won’t let a bunch of essentially strangers on the t’internet actually tell me what to do. Just thought I’d get my own thoughts down in writing to help me think it through really. Although it is great to hear everyones opinion as well of course!
Cheers!
OK, I’m going to be the party pooper here, but either you have cojones of solid diamond or you’re way ahead of my risk tolerance. Let’s take a butcher’s hook:
MB – sure, you can do very well here, but things like that hang on a thin thread, because you are basically freeloading off a system designed to fleece the punters. There’s a very strong incentive for the platform operators to find a way of canning that.
BTDT. I use to write stuff for clicks. I actually wasn’t as bad as most writers on that site, I tried to at least have something original to add. It was a great run, but as soon as I started it I knew this was an operation living on borrowed time. Four years later Google got smart enough to can it. It was all right and gave me hope and a reasonable bung for the time involved, but extractive activities tend to deplete the mother lode.
MB isn’t a career. It’s more like a renewed short-term contract, as soon as the beast finds a way to shake you off its back it will do so IMO.
Amazon merch. Seriously? WTAF? You can make Stuff as a First World facility, but you need to have a serious branding edge or other original art USP. There’s a long way between one of the many on Amazon Merch and becoming LVMH
Plus you got a nipper. Call be old-fashioned but while a cash float of 100k is far better than most of your fellow countrymen I think with that kind of responsibility you want a better strategy than being a T shirt producer and at the whim of improved AI running MB out of town.
But sure, you can afford to take a sabbatical. That’s not the same as goodbye to the 9-5 and it tends to damage your career arc if you need to say hello to the 9-5, but if it avoids burnout, great.
Imagining the thinking of your next hiring manager ‘I tried to establish the next unicorn startup using advanced programming in a niche market ripe for picking but it didn’t work out’ is a great story. ‘I was doing matched betting and doing T shirts on Amazon’, hmm, not so much.
Now the software projects could well transform that, but the focus of the post was MB and Amazon Merch rather than what you can add to the world. You’re a clever fellow, you can do better IMO. Plus you have no home office (how about a garden office then?) and you can do MB at work, which tells me that work doesn’t really push you that much. Plus they pay you while you are doing MB. What the hell is there not to like 😉
I agree with some of the sentiments of the post; particularly making Amazon Merch/Matched Betting as the focal point as I think that masks over a pretty exciting career move.
What I would add however is 15 years within one company can have a level of feeling institutionalised. As a software developer, there are huge opportunities out there so I believe whether or not these projects work out it’ll be fairly easy to find another job.
I personally feel the opposite re Matched Betting at work. I see this as an issue that the job isn’t challenging you, is not fulfilling and your skills set is perhaps ingrained in that specific company. New challenges and opportunities breathe new life into people.
I would maintain MB as a side income stream (but with a little more focus) and look at picking up another part-time role/freelance/contractor work closer to home. Having multiple income streams, experiences, meeting new people, removing yourself from a one workplace bubble would make you far more solid than staying at the ‘safe’ job (Id still question the safeness of it)
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“I personally feel the opposite re Matched Betting at work. I see this as an issue that the job isn’t challenging you, is not fulfilling and your skills set is perhaps ingrained in that specific company.” – Exactly why I think it was a bit contradictory of ermine to say about “I can do better” on one hand, but then seem to think it’s fine just staying in my job but still doing MB on the other… Personally I think I can do better than just working for someone else all my (working) life (even if that happens to be shorter than for most people) and it’s one of my reasons for wanting out in the first place 5/6 years ago…
Your last paragraph is spot on and is exactly how I would see MB and Merch or whatever else fitting together into my plan, they are all just parts of an income stream and I will think of new ones as well, be that my own projects or freelancing etc…
Cheers!
Not a party pooper at all in terms of the content you’ve written (although maybe the tone… I’ll give you that one 😉 )
I’ll bullet point some replies to save time:
Cojones – Yes I think I do have high risk tolerance compared to most people. Maybe more stupidity though haha.
MB – Yes I agree, I can see this lasting maybe 2-3 max before the bookie technologies finally catch up with us lot of dirty snides beating their system. I acknowledge that in my post (saying I don’t want to rely on it long term and not even short term really)
Merch – I don’t need to become a multinational T-Shirt brand to flog a few T-Shirts on there and have it as one part of many income streams. You are being a bit “all or nothing” in your thinking there.
“But sure, you can afford to take a sabbatical. That’s not the same as goodbye to the 9-5 and it tends to damage your career arc if you need to say hello to the 9-5, but if it avoids burnout, great.” – Yes yes… this is the whole point of all of this. I never said I am going to quit and never get another job ever again. It might just be nice to try my hand at a few new things and see how the entrepreneurial lifestyle suits me. I might hate it and be searching for a 9-5 job within 3 months! But if I don’t try it will I be thinking “what if?” in 10 years time once I am then practically fully FI, but have wasted 10 more years of my life working for the man?
“Now the software projects could well transform that, but the focus of the post was MB and Amazon Merch” – That is what you seem to have focussed on but I have actually written just one line about MB. The second part of the post is obviously about Merch but that’s only because I’ve literally just started it up, so I wanted to write about it, and it didn’t really have anything to do with the first part of the post (which again only has one line about Merch in it). There is also one line about the software projects, so I would say at a minimum I have given them the same amount of air time. In any case to ease your mind, Merch/MB would be short term wins to keep things ticking over, while I can build up longer term software projects which will hopefully be long term value generators.
And finally…
“you can do better IMO.”…
…”you can do MB at work, which tells me that work doesn’t really push you that much. Plus they pay you while you are doing MB. What the hell is there not to like”
Bit of a contradiction there… no? 😉
Saying all that, I do agree with most of what you’ve said… I guess the TLDR would have been to say thank you for your comments but I have already thought about most of this stuff in detail already, I just didn’t go into it all that much in the post.
Cheers as always!
It sounds like you want to go and to use that free time to try out some of these new income streams. If you feel like it’s a good time, then go for it!
I’m personally going to stay put until we’re fully FI, but that surely could result in us taking longer than we’d need to, wasting the precious resource of time. Tradeoffs!
Best of luck, either way!
Done by Forty recently posted…The Wage Gap, & Sharing Salary with Women
Hi DbF,
Yea we are in very different positions… If I were 2-3 years to proper FI like you guys, there is no doubt I would just grind it out at the job (and continue the side hustles to get me there even quicker).
Thank you for the well wishes and hope you are all well 🙂
I agree with Ermine. MB and selling more crap to people who don’t need it is a sad waste of your very considerable talents.
Hi Helen,
I can tell you meant well with your comment but I didn’t find it very helpful I’m afraid.
What do you suggest I do instead?
Cheers
Hi TFS,
I guess with all of these comments the implicit options are: 1) keep doing what you do now 2) go do other stuff e.g. more MB, Amazon Merch. I can’t speak for Helen, of course, but as another dispassionate 3rd party, I’d also say what you have now is better than flogging T-shirts, and makes better use of your considerable talents.
That said, it’s obviously 100% your call and there are emotional factors at play – like the regret of not giving something a go – which are absolutely real and nothing wrong with taking them into account. Also, I imagine you will make your mind up without much reference to the opinion of internet strangers tbf.
Hi,
Thanks for the comment!
I’m struggling to see both of your points:
Option 1: Stay at current job (Website dev), do MB on the side, try to develop T-Shirt side hustle
Option 2: Quit job, do some software projects I have ideas for (mainly Website dev), continue MB, try to develop a T-Shirt side hustle.
The only difference is in option 1 I am still working for the man but in option 2 I get to choose exactly what I do each and every day.
It seems to me the main issue people have is with Amazon Merch as a side hustle?
Look – I get it, it’s not for you, and to be honest it’s not really the sort of thing I would buy either.
But if there are people out there buying it, it would suggest there is demand for it and it must be making them happy in some small way, it’s the way that trade works isn’t it?
I personally don’t see the harm in that – plus as I mentioned I’ve always liked graphic design so it will give me an excuse to practice that again.
I don’t see how this is any different from working for any other company that sells practically anything. Most things in our cushty Western world can be classed as wants rather than needs, so unless I just go work for a charity or a government agency I really believe in(!?!?) or something along those lines (not out of the question at all btw… but it’s not anything anyone has actually suggested yet!?) then I feel like Amazon merch is definitely no worse than any other job in the consumer / private sector.
“Also, I imagine you will make your mind up without much reference to the opinion of internet strangers tbf.” – Honestly I do appreciate hearing everyones opinion! But both your and Helen’s comments haven’t really given me anything to go on? What should I do instead, given the above clarification that options 1 and 2 are really no different in terms of wasting my “talents”?
Cheers
I think it’s your commute that would kill me. Saying that, your set up apart from the travelling seems to be pretty sweet. I know once I had kids I became much more cautious, so I think that would probably keep me there for a bit longer. Your side hustles are doing great, and you seem to have a pretty well balanced life.
Thank you Sassenach Saving (great name btw 🙂 – I had to look up what it meant though!)
Honestly the commute is probably the bit that bothers me the least. Having a toddler means any time at home is taken up entertaining her (wouldn’t have it any other way of course) but it is nice to have a bit of peace and quiet on the train to read/write, listen to podcasts, organise my thoughts, or sleep!
I don’t know whether I would be able to find say 1-1.5 hours/day to do that stuff if I was at home all the time. I really should try out a “pretend I quit my job” schedule next time I have some allotted time off, to see how it goes.
Cheers
Go for it Andy!
If you’re comfortable with your finances and confident that your other side hustles / businesses for the future are there for backup, then take the big leap!
Jase recently posted…January 2019 – Financial Update
Cheers for the input Jase!
I hear back about my pay rise in about 2 weeks so will certainly be waiting until then before I make any final decisions.
Cheers
Have you considered a career break? I don’t know if you company does them but it could be worth considering taking a year out and then if everything looks to be going well then don’t go back.
If I were in your shoes I wouldn’t leave just yet. I would want something certain* to be bringing home the bacon for example money from B2L houses, solar panel income or a contract for some software you have made. The question that I always ask myself is how am i going to be when I got from the wealth building stage to the wealth preservation stage of FIRE? I haven’t answered it yet.
“how am i going to be when I got from the wealth building stage to the wealth preservation stage of FIRE?” – This would be my main worry. What happens when I have a bad month on the MB, it doesn’t even cover our expenses, and I have to draw down from the Liquid Freedom pot? I think I would be terrified…
Definitely need more thought along those lines….
Cheers!
I don’t know how I missed this earlier. Exciting times TFS! At lot has already been said in the other comments. With your side hustles you’re in a great place. The only things I would add are:
– You’re usually quite (numerically) analytical. This seems much more emotional – how much of this is just going back to work after Christmas vs really being ready to go?
– Have you thought about how to manage the social aspect? I feel like a lot of FIRE bloggers write about the challenge of continuing to see people after they pull the trigger.
– if you have an FI number in mind is there any reason to not at least stay until you get there? Presumably there was a logic to setting it?
– There’s a lot in that saying about regretting the things that you don’t do. If you don’t pull the trigger how will you feel?
– Are there other intermediate options? Given the alternative is to quit, is there any risk is asking to drop another day at work or asking to work from home 1/2/3 days a week?
Whatever you do, good luck. I suspect that whatever you decide you’ll make it work for you!
Caveman recently posted…January 2019 update: Did I undersell my goals?
Thanks for a well considered comment as usual Caveman.
Answering your points in order:
You are right it’s mainly an emotional post, although I think the numbers stack up as well.
I’m not really that bothered about the social aspect, we are very sociable people at both work and at home, if anything I could do with dialling down some of the social stuff I reckon, haha. I would miss going for runs along the Thames with workmates at lunchtime though, for sure.
My true FI number is years away (easily 10, if not more) so no I don’t want to stay there until then. Although there was the number of having £250K in income producing investments at the start of the blog, before I would feel comfortable quitting. But that was 5 years ago, I had no experience of what this whole thing would entail and how things would go, and may as well have been arbitrary really, but at the least it was a plan that was prone to being updated (which it has been a few times over the years). There is no point to sticking to something you said you would do 5 years ago if that no doesn’t make sense, even if you said it to a bunch of random people on the internet 🙂
Regretting what I don’t do – Hit the nail on the head with this one!!! I’m just thinking if not now then when? If I go in 1 year, why wait out a whole extra year? It just doesn’t make that much sense to me.
There are no more intermediate options, they want me to work more not less, I know there is the if you don’t ask you don’t get thing, but it’s been made pretty clear to me from conversations at work that it’s really not worth me asking.
Thanks again for helping me clarify my thoughts on that stuff 🙂
My pleasure! Glad I could help (I’m special like that…!)
All of that makes a lot of sense. To chuck in one of my favourite John Lennon quotes “Life is what happens to you while you’re busy making other plans.”
I await the post with your decision with baited breath!
AH Caveman I like you more and more with each passing day, you are one of the rare breed that actually reads the replies just like I try to do whenever I comment on other blogs.
I always tick the “follow comments” box, although it seems to be very buggy nowadays and I rarely get follow up emails about them for some reason, annoying! Sometimes I just leave the tab open and refresh a day or two later to read the reply.
Cheers again!
I’m afraid I couldn’t contemplate giving up the 9-5 until FIRE was a reality or almost there. But that’s not to say you shouldn’t. I know you have a very high risk tolerance – your EW betting levels make me shudder!
But I think now is maybe not the right time, another year or two perhaps?
Hi Tuppeny,
In all honesty I think you are right, but it’s just that nagging feeling of if not now then will I ever do it, that is worrying me. I definitely don’t want to be writing another post like this in 5 years time.
Cheers
Man, this is a pretty tough choice. I can see where a lot of other commentators are coming from in saying that you don’t have a *huge* cash buffer, and that you’d be giving up a lot of money in the short term (seeing as you can effectively do the MBing at work). But I can also see where you’re coming from, thinking “if not now, then when??”
I think I personally am too risk averse (at the moment) to jack it all in at once. However, I can identify with not enjoying work and wanting to try something new.
I think, based on following your blog for a year or so, reading the above comments and your replies I would consider doing the following:
– Wait for an answer regarding the pay rise. If it is substantial and it will allow you to accelerate your earnings, why not take it and stay for another year. If you can save £60K in a year, rather than the 40K you could currently save, that sounds worth it to me. That extra £20K arguably buys you another year of freedom (assuming you can keep your expenses down)
– However, if the pay rise doesn’t come through, or if you won’t find out for a long time, then I would probably suggest handing in your notice and quitting. Not forever, as you have said before, but consider taking off 6-9 months and making a solid go at working for yourself. If you think the extra time would enable you to start working on new programming side projects and generating new sources of income, then do it. Then, after 6 months, you can take stock and evaluate where you are. Maybe you actually hate it, and prefer the ease of going into work. Or maybe the ideas don’t take off, or … etc. BUT, you would have given it a go, and you will see whether or not the grass is actually greener on the other side. If you don’t like it, well, you appear to have an in-demand skill set, so you can get a new job fairly easily.
TL;DR – take a 6 month sabbatical, try out the new lifestyle. If it works, great! If not, get a new job elsewhere.
Dr FIRE recently posted…My Investment Strategy Statement
Fab post as always! Rather exciting time for you especially with having so much extra cash stockpiled away.
I agree with Dr Fire – 6 months away will really give you time to work out whats right for you.
I’m intrigued in the merch! How’s it going? I loved the idea when I first came across it over on Saving Ninja’s blog!
Cheers LMF!
You are smashing it on the side hustles now though 🙂
Erm… it’s stalled a bit to be honest. I’m struggling to find time to devote to it, I was planning on having time off work to do it but this has not materialised yet. I should be having some off between April and June though, so will start to build on it then and post updates as and when I can
Cheers
Black T-Shirt looks very good, but the border around logo is too bold. Good luck with merch, bro!
Cheers bro! 🙂