Is it possible to live on £10000 a year in the UK?
Today, as the title topic suggests, we will be trying to answer that age old question, is it possible to live on £10k a year in the UK?
To be honest, I really would hope that anyone reading this will instantly be screaming “£10,000 per year will buy me a life of luxury that 99% of the Worlds population will never ever get the chance to even think of having! Why oh why, TFS, are you even asking such a ridiculous question and wasting all of our precious blog reading time!?”
However from observations of most of the middle class creatures in this country I fear that most would think that this level of yearly spending would equal a life of poverty and despair, and even worse now people on benefits are starting to moan about their hard done by life – living on a pitance such as the equivalent of a £70,000 before tax per year job. *
So anyway, the short answer is yes, I think it definitely is possible, depending on where you live: Londoners may well be politely denied entry to the 10k club, unless you live in a complete hovel or somehow blag free accommodation. Those outside of the South East should be able to do it relatively easily. I may be generalising but in my experience of living outside of the South East for a few years almost everything was cheaper, not just accommodation but other precious commodities such as fuel, food, and obviously not forgetting beer.
So I guess the next question is am I achieving this level of spending yet? I’m somewhat frustrated to say, the answer is no, but it is something I’m shooting for in my pursuit of FIRE. To illustrate that is possible and how I’m on my way towards that £10,000 target, here is a spiffing spreadsheet of my example budgets. There are four columns:
1. A typical months spending before I was thinking about retiring early
2. A typical months spending since I “saw the light” and have been trying to cut back.**
3. An optimal months spending to hit £10k
4. An example post-FIRE budget
There are a few interesting points to note here:
- In terms of mandatory outgoings, I was running a pretty tight ship in the first place (some more extreme frugalists may disagree with that though!), so the majority of spending is on going out and entertainment, which you can roughly translate to getting pissed in my case. Yes, I like a good night on the tiles as much as the next man, but with FIRE as an imminent goal, this HAS to be the category that can be most easily cut down on. And so it will be. There are some other cuts in other areas as well which I will talk about in further posts, most of them fairly small but if you add them up it comes to a nice chunk saved. So far I’ve already cut out £231 per month, or £2,772 per year of regular outgoings, not including any of the bottom section of social and other spending, with more to come once I sort out the Gas and Electricity bills. So you can see there is almost always going to be scope for everyone to cut costs, with very little or no sacrifices in those areas.
- To hit my target of £10K I’ve cut back slightly on the Gas/Electric bills which should be easy to do, and I’m also down to a pretty measley £80 a month on food (although I think this is still doable whilst eating well and healthy – we’ll see how that goes!). But the main two cuts are on my two social activites of “Going out” and golf. I figure £40 a month should buy me two rounds at semi decent courses which is not too much more than I play now anyway. £100 a month on going out and social stuff will be tough but there is a lot of mileage in just inviting friends over instead and doing things that way. Where I might fall down here is when social obligations play a factor, for example someone wants a night out in London for their Birthday. Again… we’ll see how that goes!
- Next up is the “After FI” column, and I note the fact that many report that their spending actually decreases once they retire from the workplace anyway. This is due to combination of having more time to spend on productive endeavours that can save you more money (e.g. growing vegetables, insourcing more home repair, car maintenance, etc.) and I think the tendency to spend less as you get older anyway. In five years time I will, quite obviously, be older, so I am guessing I won’t have the desire to be down the pub quite so often, and will have substantially more Stag do’s, weddings, and other expensive social obligations to manage.
- The final thing I will note is that once I am truly at FI, I shouldn’t have a mortgage to pay for, I realise this will require more savings, or you can count it as an investment if you want, but ultimately, that is the goal. So with the accommodation puzzle solved, we can glide in under the 10k barrier with consummate ease. Until that point, I need to cut out some more stuff to hit the mark.
I think the key thing to take away from this for any readers thinking about starting down this path, is that I was probably living on a much tighter budget than most of my peers in the first place, and I still had plenty of room to manoeuvre down the spending ladder… again I will stress with literally no downgrade in lifestyle. In a way this seems unbelievable, but with a few careful purchasing considerations, some slight financial engineering, and a fresh perspective it is easily achievable. Don’t fret, some cold hard facts on how you might achieve this yourself are coming up in future posts.***
At this point it is probably wise to ask yourself a few important questions:
Do you really need a 3 or 4 bedroom house, with huge garden?
Do you really need a brand spanking new or nearly new car every 3-4 years?
Do you really need to eat out at expensive restaurants or get some fat and sugar laden takeaway 2 or 3 times a week?
Do you really need all of those new designer clothes, handbags and shoes? The ones that are made in the same factories as the ones that cost about a fiver?
If so are all of those things listed above more important to you than having the time to live your life in the way you really want to, not in the way the system has brought you up, to work (unnecessarily) for 40 years?
If the answer to any of the above is yes, and you are happy working to pay for them till you are 65 or maybe even 70 or beyond the way things in this country are going, then this blog is not for you my friend, and I hereby give you permission to stop reading right now and go and buy the latest shiney shiney thing on Amazon ((Yes that was an affiliate link… well I may as well try to make a few quid out of any consumer mugs that happen upon the blog 😉 ))
If the answer is a firm and unresounding NO then please join me, sign up to the RSS feed, via email, or twitter ((I’m refusing to open a facebook account for now!)), as we journey through the murkey depths of personal economic, environmental, and ethical values in the UK waters and emerge smelling of an all natural, organically grown English Rose.
Cheers 🙂
TFS.x
p.s. I would love to hear if anyone thinks £10k is far too big (or small!) to live on in the comments section, and if anyone is smashing below that barrier, let us know any tips and tricks on how you are doing this?!
*Yes, I realise that Daily Fail articles are mainly written to get a rise out of people, but in my experience there are many people like this in the real World, albeit slightly less annoyingly selfish and stupid. Back ↑
**Please note I am cohabiting with my future wife so this obviously helps with splitting the mortgage and other bills etc. However if you are single then I would heartily recommend house sharing with 3 or 4 other people, this generally works out even cheaper than sharing with a spouse or partner, and is usually a flipping good laugh to boot! Back ↑
***To give you a taste of things to come, and to show I am not just talking hot air, some topics for some future posts:
- Creating a budget / tracking your spending
- Cutting your food shopping bill in half
- Financial engineering part 1, with Cashback credit cards
- Financial engineering part 2, Bank accounts that pay and reducing monthly bills
- Starting up your investment accounts
For some readers this may be treading over old ground, but I feel they are necessary to providing a solid grounding to the principals of the blog, and will hopefully provide a resource for any future new readers that are new to the subjects at hand. Back ↑
Discussion (63) ¬
Hi TFS
I prefer to work in percentages rather than absolutes – I’m married with 3 kids and need certain types of clothes for work. So, my living expenses are more than double that. However, if I can save 50% of my net income, I feel I’m sufficiently living below my means to achieve FI.
With a prevailing wind of 5% investment returns and holding on to my job, I reckon on 8 years to achieve it.
Hey David,
You are one step ahead of me there! I was going to analyse the minimum sort of salary you’d need to be saving 50%, but the post was long enough already, so I’m going to post another one which does this shortly.
Also, you are doing really well if your expenses are only just over double that including your wife and 3 kids, I’m very impressed! Mine does not include the Mrs so ours are obviously double that, if not slightly more as well… haircuts are expensive as you are most probably well aware 🙂
And no kids yet either!
Clearly I have some work to do in this area.
What area are you based in, if you don’t mind me asking?
Cheers
TFS
Hi TFS
I tackled the mortgage free challenge first, before getting into investments. So I’m 18 months free of that – which helps a lot with maintaining a lower cost base. Then, the rest of the focus has been maximising my earning potential whilst not increasing our living costs in any similar proportion.
What I like to do now to set saving/investment milestones is list out my expenses and accrue enough that, based on 4% return, they are gradually covered off. So, for example how much do I need in order to generate a sufficient return to cover my council tax?
I am based in the South West of England. So, property prices are not low, but not as high as the South East.
And yes – my other half is prone to frequenting Tony & Guy, which ain’t cheap!
Again, it’s great to hear that you are mortgage free, you sound like a very shrewd individual! 🙂
I like the idea of ticking off the expenses covered one by one as well… Breaking down such a big task such as saving for ER into smaller milestones is always a good idea so you feel like you are making progress, which everyone can relate to.
Getting the Tony & Guy expenses covered might take a while by the sounds of it 😉
Your blog post made me laugh at the end! That budget spreadsheet reminds me very much of ours, except we also have a budget for saving up for a new car. We do not buy a new car often at all, we rack up the miles and only get one when we really need one (giving it up altogether is something I keep thinking about but am just not ready for at the moment..). We have always been able to buy a new to us car (i.e. used) when we needed one outright as we always put a little money away for one each month. We have stopped doing that now I’m not working, but any travel expenses my husband gets (and I used to get) from work get put in the new car fund as well.
Plus we have 2 kids which does make our spreadsheet look a little different as well. There are lots of ways to spend less on the kids though and Hattie Garlick writer of http://www.freeourkids.co.uk/ has a few ideas about how to spend nothing on kids!
Going mortgage free is not something I’ve seriously considered before, especially now we are only on one salary, but I’m starting to give it some thought..
Glad it made you chuckle!
I have to admit that since writing out this budget, I am not doing very well at hitting the target version. Although I haven’t actually totted much up since October as we are saving up well and I am happy with progress… it would still be worth checking in against the budget I think! I must do this again soon to make sure there isn’t any particular area we are overspending in.
I’m still on the fence about the mortgage to be honest. I’ve been reading a lot about getting rental properties which tends to work due the leverage available via mortgages, so they are not necessarily a bad thing especially short term, but obviously if you are retired or financially independent, the house you live in would be better off being paid off.
The kids site looks great, thanks for posting! If/when me and Mrs TFS finally pop out a sprog or two I will be sure to come back to reference it 🙂
We are just monitoring our food expenses. Will let you know for compare and contrast when we are done. They will of course be plastic free as that’s how we roll (no Aldis for us and Lidles is a closed store).
Later.
Pamx
Thanks for stopping by and commenting Pam!
Your blog looks great, I just signed up to plastic free July so will be reading through for some tips!
What do you mean by Lidl is a closed store? As in… the store is shut down, or that it doesn’t offer plastic free produce so you do not shop there?
Cheers
TFS
Hooray for plastic free July and thanks for kind words about the blog. Lidles – all plastic wrapped – except strangely the milk powder – in a tin! Or at least it used to be.
Hi. I enjoy reading your blog and thought I’d also see if living on £10k is possible for us. Unfortunately not, it seems – you can check out my calcs on my blog.
Hi DM! Thanks for reading and glad you went on to try the exercise yourself! Heading over to check out your findings right now…
Erm… I have to also admit that this was really a thought experiment to see if it could be theoretically done, we haven’t hit the monthly budget once since writing this post. Plus since writing it I realised I missed some obvious things out of this such as annualised replacement costs of house related stuff as detailed excellently in this Root of Good post: http://rootofgood.com/budget-home-repairs-billion-dollar-project/
So I think all in if I am hitting the original orange column, I am doing pretty well. I am going to re-run my numbers this week and work out what my actual savings percentage is going to be, then set up an auto direct debit out of the account for this amount to live on (hope that makes sense!?). I’ll be detailing all of this in a post as part of the Financial Independence planning series.
Cheers again!
Hi. Thanks for the reply. You’ll probably think that there’s an awful lot of fat in my calculations, certainly not up to MMM’s high standards ! However, I’m old enough, and near enough to FI that I can cut myself a little bit of slack here and there …. I’ve also a post on my percentage spending for 2013, and I managed to hit the 50% savings mark last year.
Hi. Just checked out that rootofgood blog post. Lots of fine stuff in there, but the depreciation costs are way too high for the UK. I’m also an engineer with experience of managing billion dollar industrial projects, but your house is not a productive industrial asset – in a typical UK house there’s no A/C, the roof will basically last forever (slate or concrete pantiles and not wooden shingles) and very few people would ever contemplate replacing existing uPVC doors and windows because the cost benefits could never payback the upfront investment.
True about those extraneous elements but my point was really that I hadn’t included ANY costs for that sort of stuff at all, which is clearly not wise.
I see you have used a combined figure of £340 for house repairs and appliance depreciation – and coming from a UK engineer, I am happy to use that in my calculations going forward, so thanks for that!
I dunno… I think MMM generally has quite a lot of fat built into his calculations… but I think that is the whole point of his blog, that you can live a very nice lifestyle on not as much cash as common wisdom would have us believe. I’m imagining the cost of living in Colorado is a bit lower than over here anyway so I think we’re doing pretty well. Also your yearly figure of around £15,000 is about the same as MMM’s in dollars anyway, so you are matching his badassity on every level!
I got down to 10K a year for the first time this year. (20K per year for the pair – Mrs Accumulator and I). Despite inflation, our expenses have gone down year on year because the power of habit creates a virtuous spiral once you’ve got your tanker pointing the right way and you keep building upon money-saving strategies. I’m pretty confident that I’ll be able to beat that figure next year because another of your posts has just pointed me to Lidl. Groceries are our biggest expense so inspired by your recommendation we did a quick recce of our local and discovered a world of savings in comparison to our Asda shop. Cheers for that! 10K per year is an important benchmark because, as of the new tax year, spending under that level means you’ve taken yourself out of income tax. It doesn’t feel like deprivation either once your spending lines up with your values i.e. you only buy things that will truly make a difference to your life in the long run. Your Money Or Your Life is a great book on this topic and Early Retirement Extreme is a potent source of philosophical, strategic and tactical guidance.
Thanks for the comment Accumulator, and great to hear of someone acheiving the holy grail 10k per year mark. Can I ask does the 10K include housing costs or have you a paid off mortgage? Also where abouts do you live, I got the feeling you and The Investor were both from London? (exact address not needed… don’t worry I’m not an internet stalker 🙂 )
I agree on the effect of the power of habit. Even if you managed to keep your expenses the same each year as a fixed value, they’d be decreasing in real terms, which is pretty good for most people, but if you can still manage to find an edge and actually cut them further then that is even better!
I’ve read ERE which is invaluable as you say, but not YMOYL yet. I’ll have to check that out of the library soon!
Glad I could point you onto Lidl, I love that shop! 🙂
I’m based in the South West, so David’s comments apply. The 10K does include housing costs both interest payments and house maintenance. Thanks to a lifetime tracker though my mortgage is ridiculously cheap. I reckon we could cut expenses down to about £8K each once retired but assume that we’d spend more on travel, cake and mucking about so £10K is probably fair. What I’m not sure about is how much better we could do if it wasn’t for work addling our brains and driving us towards convenient solutions.
Aha… Hope you’ve managed to avoid the flooding down that way then TA!
If I retired right now and had my house paid off I would be hovering around or just over the 10K mark I think, but having to pay £30 a year in tax would not bother me so much, so as long as it’s there or there abouts I will be happy. As you say, without work you will have time to spend on creating even more inventive solutions to provide for your needs and wants so I’m sure I’ll duck underneath that when the time comes anyway, even including travel, cake and mucking about 🙂
I reckon Mrs LCIL & I could trim out expenses to live very comfortably on 13K each once the mortgage is cleared, & this is zone 3 living with 2 kids in tow (state schooling). Our life post 55yrs old is going to be comfortable once the pensions kick in & we receive our lump sums. I’m working at 15K each though as we need to visit family overseas every few years which won’t come cheap with 4 tickets needed.
Costs have to be booked against repairs & maintenance for property… things to do happen & those things can’t all be repaired yourself, plus you need things doing periodically like chimney swept, boiler tested etc. The recent storms have created a sudden (& large) damp patch on the wall in our bedroom, for example….. s*** happens & you need £’s to deal with it!
Hello Firestarter, I’m enjoying this new UK-focused FI blog.
I’ve been monitoring our spending in intricate detail for around 18 months now. By reconciling our costs (i.e making sure that spending equals the difference between opening and closing bank and credit card balances) I can be 100% sure that I haven’t missed anything.
Our rolling 12 month average spending is currently down to around £17,500 per year. This is for two adults, one young child and a dog. We do run a car so just to be safe I’d add another £500 per year for depreciation. I’d feel very confident retiring with an income of £20,000 per year. Like the Accumulator I find our costs just keep falling as we now have the right mindset to allow this to happen.
We live in an expensive city in the south, but I’ve excluded mortgage payments from the total. I don’t think it makes any sense to include them because you need to compare like with like. Also you’re never going to retire with outstanding debt. I’ve ignored nursery fees as well because they would fall to zero with older children, and upon retirement we wouldn’t need to pay for this anyway as we could do it ourselves.
Like Mr Money Mustache I feel we have a life of luxury and I don’t feel deprived at all. We eat out, we go on holiday, we only buy the staples at Aldi and get the rest at Sainsburys. I can still see lots of waste from our house being energy inefficient, from my partner buying a lot of clothes, and from other random unnecessary purchases. So there’s definitely still slack in there.
There’s an old adage that ‘two can live as cheaply as one’. It must be much harder for one person to live on £10,000 than two live on £20,000. I’d want £15,000 if I was on my own.
Greetings BeatTheSeasons and thanks for joining in the discussion!
That’s good going and good to hear others achieving such levels of spending and living comfortably (nay, luxuriously!) on it.
I agree about not including the mortgage when planning retirement spending plans as like you say you will be mortgage free or very nearly by the time you pull the trigger. Just like I wouldn’t include commuting to work costs as well.
Also agree on your last point, there is a surprising level of economies of scale when you live with someone else, plus the obvious benefit of splitting costs.
Hi Firestarter.
Well, I googled, ‘how to live on 10k per year’ and found this site.
Looking at your budget it is possible for you but…not for me! I’ve always thought I was frugal and pretty good with money but living costs are living costs and some just aren’t negotiable. Maybe I am missing something but some of your budget costs aren’t the true costs. The TV licence is £145 pa. Divide that by 12 and you get over £12 per month. I presume you are sharing that cost with your partner. So, therefore you can live in 10k as some of your costs are shared, it’s possible to live on the budget.
What happens when someone single has £10k (after tax) with a rent of £7200 per year. It becomes an existence not a living I’m afraid.
Living in hope of finding that well paid job with only 8 years left to retirement.
Hi Costalotta!
Glad to hear I’m getting some visitors from the big G, and thanks for commenting!
You are completely right about me sharing costs with a partner of course, and I sympathise entirely with the single folks out there who cannot do this, it really does make a huge differnce.
If there are any single people out there doing it on 10k per year, still paying a mortgage or renting, I’d like to hear from you!
But like you say, I doubt it is possible, barring thinking up some extreme living arrangements, which neither you nor I would want to consider by the sounds of it (although as always, kudos to those that do!)
Good luck with finding your well paid job, the economy seems to be picking up and wages are rising so I think you have a good chance! If you stick around the blog please keep us up to date with your progress as well. Cheers!
Why on earth do you need to pay for a TV licence?!
Ha ha, very good point BTS!
I’m afraid to say that I haven’t fully pulled the plug on broadcast television services just yet. When I hit FI I’ll probably pull it back to some kind of streaming service, which will no doubt be so cheap by then it will practically be free 🙂
I had to re-visit this topic, as I was driving to work this morning, listening to an LBC phone in, where the subject was “A person (not family) earning £16,200pa or less is below the poverty line”. The usual guidelines are a “household” living on an income of 60% less than the average wage (now about 26,500 I believe = £15,900). I know it’s subjective because if you pay high rent this is your primary set back. I also “get” that you have little room to save at all, which is a killer blow, and not a good cycle to be in. I’ve lived at the sharp end of the stick in the past, as many have, so I really do not want to come across as insensitive, or not understanding that. However, having flat-shared, not so long ago, in a smart river road flat in Chiswick, run a car, had an extortionate gym membership, gone out on the lash, etc etc, I was doing it all on about 14k, which apparently, after tax/NI, is the London poverty line? Beat the Seasons is running a house/family/dog on £17,500 but would feel comfortable, as a singleton, on £15,000 which is around my target. On your Target 10k Budget you’ve allowed over £400 for house/bills, plus you’re running a car and playing golf. Thanks for breaking down the 10k costs, because it is possible, albeit, not much leg-room for anything extravagant.
The poverty line thing is just ridiculous nowadays and needs to be revised. If economic growth and therefore citizens prosperity were to continue in an exponential fashion, in just ~13 years (assuming 4% real growth rate) the average person of today will be living “in poverty”. This does not make any sense to me that someone who has all their immediate needs met and then some in 2014 would be called living a poverty level existence in only 2027.
It also makes little sense to constantly tell a large percentage of our population that they are living in poverty, it is going to make them feel bad for a start, and it also gives people the chance to whinge about it, but then maybe that is point (creating the feeling of helplessness, creating more consumer demand?).
Getting back to the point in hand, if I didn’t include my mortgage as BTS has not done, we are smashing £10k a year each, as our mortgage is (or will be) now £10k a year since we recently moved. However including the new mortgage we are unfortunately nowhere near £10k per year per person, so while this article still has relevancy in general (and certainly for a “retirement budget”, where no mortgage and other implied reduced costs), I do need to run another to update the numbers for my own situation, right here, right now. As other commenters pointed out, I did miss out a few bits n bobs as well, but having been tracking my expenses properly in Money Dashboard: http://thefirestarter.co.uk/track-finances-ease-introducing-money-dashboard/ – for the last 5-6 months, and a few extra spreadsheets of data, I have a much better idea of exactly what we are spending now.
Cheers for the comment!
Spooky. Your mortgage payment is about £1.50 different to mine.
Good to see you have golf in the budget 🙂
Hah! Unfortunately I’ve moved house since I wrote this post so it’s gone up a bit, not much as we don’t pay leasehold rent anymore. I should do another update, maybe one for the new year, fresh start/fresh budget and all that.
£10,000 p.a. budget for one person (no mortgage) = £833 per month
Monthly fixed costs :
Council tax, £60
Electric and gas, £60
Water, £40
Landline £15
Mobile £15
Internet £20
Petrol £50
Car Tax £15
Car Insurance £30
Home insurance £20
Vet fund £10
Cat food £45
Misc £20
Sub-total = £400 per month for utilities, car, insurance communications, pets
So £430 is left everything else = £100 per week
I put £100 in an envelope each week and see how I am doing after a few months.
Without too much trouble i can I grow my own lettuce and greens (perpetual spinach) outside in containers, also alfafa sprouts for salads. Limit spending on food to about £23 per week (£100 per month) as follows:
Weekly shop:
1 litre milk 1.00
1 litre soy milk or juice 1.00
1/4 box muesli 1.00
1/2 pack figs or prunes 1.00
Veg oil / butter pro rata .50
1 can chick peas or mixed beans .50
1 can baked beans .50
1 tin mackerel or tun 1.00
1 can sweetcor .50
1 can tomatoe .50
peanut butter .50
1 pack crackers .50
Half jar jam .50
1 pack nuts 1.50
Brocoli/courgette/carrot 1.00
Cucumber /tomatoes 1.00
Eggs 1.50
Fruit 1.50
Bread .50
Plain yoghurt 50
Mayonnaise pro rata .50
Rice/porridge oats .50
Spices/salt/soy sauce .50
Cordial eg peach squash pro rata. .50
Potatoes/pasta .50
Veggie burgers/sausages pro rata .50
Cheese pro rata .50
Misc. 2.00
Coffee/tea 1.00
TOTAL weekly: £23.00
This leaves about £77 per week for clothes, toiletries, alcohol, household cleaning, detergent, going out, household repairs, spectacles, underwear, over the counter medicines, rail tickets, garden seeds.
I tend to get most of my clothes from charity shops and really do have “enough” so I want to see how long I can go without buying more – I seriously think I have enough shoes and boots to last me for the rest of my life!!!
…and of course I always have lentils on hand: practically “free” food, and I do like a big bowl of lentil soup on a winter evening if I’ve blown my food budget on gin or books!!!
Caroline! Thanks for taking the time to provide such a detailed breakdown, that is fantastic!
I’ve just googled perpetual spinach, I’ll be giving some gardening a crack this year now we finally have a garden so will add that to the list of things to look into.
Lentil soup sounds nice, I must try that one! Any good recipes you know feel free to post them here?
Thanks again!
Hi there,
I would guess living in London on 10,000 pa is feasible. My nerdy spreadsheet notes tell me that I spent around 11,500 for the last two years each, including rent and some very low-cost vacation. There are some things that I could theoretically cut out just to make a point proving to hit the 10,000 mark, but I am used to some total irrationalities like taking the bus instead of my bike, having my coffee and pastry before heading to work and smoking like a chimney.
For most people it might seem very hard, but a lot of the things I am doing are just logic to me – e.g. in a city where people tend to work crazy hours and then spend the rest of their days eating out and meeting friends somewhere in the city centre before taking on their long commute, it just does not make sense to me why somebody would need more than a room in a shared flat. If you keep the cost of rent and transport to a minimum, you are already halfway there 🙂
Hi Clau, thanks for the comment!
Interesting perspective. Obviously that works well for a young singleton but as soon as you throw kids into the mix that’s right out the window!
But point taken indeed, no point in paying £1000+ per month for a swanky penthouse studio flat you never spend any time in ay. I used to enjoy shared accomodation, it was a right laugh (as well as a trial at times) and saved me a load of money so I am right with ya on that one.
If you do indeed smoke like a chimney I would guess just knocking that on the head would take you down below the 10K mark!
I am also guessing you don’t drink alcohol (or a limited amount)?
We all have our irrationalities, coffee and fags are a popular combination from my own gathered evidence 🙂
Hi my husband and I have been retired for fourteen years we now live on £14000 a year, for two of us. Our house is in Scotland we have a small car and usually spend winter in the south of Spain in our motorhome. At the moment we are in an apartment in Tenerife for three months. We live well on this amount and also do a lot of traveling.
Moira, thanks for commenting and providing yet another example of how you can live well, and even travel/stay abroad for less than £10k per year!
I guess being retired allows you to get all the off peak deals and really hunt down value, and focus more time on free hobbies. Cheers!
When I was a single girl living in my apartment I believe I could have survived on 10k a year after I had my mortgage paid off so you guessed it I overpaid my mortgage as much as I could. Then I fell in love, got married, got pregnant and am now building a rather large house with my hubby so there is no way I could even contemplate affording to survive on 10k
Hi Laura
Thanks for chipping in. Of course our expenses change massively over the course of our lives. I would say that they peak during 30s and 40s and then start to dip again as we get older. I mean in terms of essential costs here. Many people just continue to increase consumption as they get older because they are earning more.
Good luck with the house build, sounds like an exciting project!
If you’re a Londoner who desperately wants to be up there with the big cats – huge apartment on the Bank, fancy dining and hotels, occasional liquid lunches and designer brands, flash cars and first class holidays then yes 10k would be like making 10p. However if you are not sad enough to crave that lifestyle and are happy to settle for less – a dinky flat in some crummy area where the rent is p!ss cheap, living simply and using the money for the necessaries, the only treats being a takeaway once a fortnight and cake then yes £10 is more than enough. Its not the money, its how you spend it. I’ve heard of people on £60k salaries who are up to their eyes in debt and can’t figure out why yet if they were intelligent enough to cut out all the crap they spent – or should I say WASTED – their money on, they’d be able to save a couple of hundred k within 10 years!
I don’t know anyone personally like that you say but people don’t tend to talk about how much they earn or are in debt. It would be very interesting to find out that sort of thing! I think J Money from budgets are sexy has written about what if your net worth was printed on your forehead, how interesting would that be to find out all of your friends and acquaintances savings/debt situation.
Of course I’m somewhere in the middle, I don’t want to hang out with the fat cats but don’t want to live in a dinky flat in some crummy area either. Moderation in spending and trying to earn as much as possible (without breaking my balls too hard) is my personal take on things now, 3 years after having written this piece – Great to see people still reading it though 🙂
Hey TFS
I returned to this post recently when I was reviewing my calculations for my ‘number’.
Looking at my current expenditure, if I strip away my holidays, gym membership, hobbies and social/entertainment, then I can actually live on £10k.
Not much of a life but good to know that if I really wanted to batten down the hatches and go into uber-frugal/hermit mode, I could survive on that amount!
Hi weenie,
Glad to hear this old post is still getting some love 🙂
As I’ve mentioned a few times on here and as anyone reading my monthly/yearly updates we are no where frigging near living on 10K per year. Even we were mortgage free right now it would be around £12K or £13K per year.
HOWEVER… knowing what I know now it would be almost comically easy to make £12K per year just with a few side hustles (you could probably do the whole lot with Matched Betting for example, for a year or two at least) or have a combination of living off of investment income and side hustles, or doing some highly paid freelance work as I’ve mentioned I might try my hand at elsewhere as well.
There are so many different tools available to get to FI or something close enough for most people to radically change their lifestyle and frugality while being the bedrock of it all, extreme frugality is not generally needed.
Cheers!
£60 council tax, if only! Also the budget misses off internet costs or if part of the BT phone bill? 😮
My “essentials” are currently a bit under £800 including a guesstimate average MOT repair bill so it’d be possible if I maintained a hermit lifestyle 365 days per year. Mortgage free would obviously be much more manageable
Hi Dird,
Remember that is split between two people so it was £120 in total! Now we’ve moved into a larger house I still think our bill is only like £135 or something a month so not that much more.
I get free internet through work, but yes obviously that should be included in the post FIRE budget though… good spot!
I think once FIRE’d and mortgage free it would be much easier to live on under 10K per year (per person), inflation adjusted to when I wrote this post originally of course.
Cheers!
Yes it most definitely is possible! I’m on track to spend about £8,000 this year including £1,200 designated for holidays. Not however including my pension contribution- still not sure whether I count this as an expense or a saving!
I have many hobbies including rock climbing, cycling, piano lessons, Spanish lessons so it doesn’t even take an extremely basic life to spend this little! All it takes is some effort in the big areas- housing, transportation and food. Thoughtful trimming of these areas leaves you with a lot of legroom in other areas like hobbies.
I encourage buying very few vanity items too and instead focussing on internally enriching spending like education and experiences that will widen your view of the world and build your skills!
I have a post about how I saved £12,000 in 12 months that goes into more detail but it is definitely possible and also rather enjoyable to live on ten big ones! 🙂
http://wp.me/p7LNL5-88
Hi Differentli,
That’s so good! Well done!
Where abouts do you live just out of interest and do you still have a mortgage or rent to pay?
Definitely count pension contributions as saving, of course it is saving and not spending.
Sounds like you have got intentional spending down to a tee and all your money goes on life enriching items/experiences, massive kudos to you!
Oh thank you that’s very kind! I live in lovely Wales which I imagine helps, no city prices! I pay £260 a month bills included to rent a room, it’s just the most sensible way to live right now, costs less than the interest on a mortgage!
Pensions is a confusing one I find with early retirement because it doesn’t actually count towards your 25x spending if you can’t access it until 59.5! So it’s in it’s own category, I contribute for the employer match and peace of mind 🙂 do you count yours in your savings?
Li
That is a cracking deal with bills included even in a low cost of living area. Nice work! And good to see someone doing the maths on rent vs mortgage and doing something sensible about that 🙂
I get what you mean with the access issue, and especially as you are a tad younger than I, I get the thinking behind it, as 59/60 is waaaay off (hint: it will come up a lot quicker than you think 😉 )
But it is most definitely still savings and can and should count towards the 25x spending UNLESS, that is literally the only savings you are doing (I’m assuming it isn’t for most people doing the whole FIRE thing). Let’s say you split pension and other savings 50/50 and at age 40 you had 300K in your pension and 300K in ISAs and other investment vehicles. The 300K does not have to be 25x your spending because it doesn’t have to last “forever” like the whole pot does, it only has to get you to age 60. 300K is 15K per year over those 20 years assuming no real growth (but also no real loss) which sounds like it should do for someone in your spending situation.
Obviously be sensible about saving outside of your pension so you know you will have enough to get you to 60, but as long as you are then yes definitely include the pension savings, including employer match in your 25x spending figure.
I wrote an article about it once here if you want any further thoughts on how to calculate your savings rate etc…:
http://thefirestarter.co.uk/calculating-savings-rate/
Hi TFS,
Yes it is, I’m aware of how incredibly lucky I am to have this available to me! My previous house share was about the same but A LOT smaller so this is a welcome upgrade! Yes, I’ve been mulling it over but to me it seems counterproductive to buy a house with a mortgage PLUS then having to pay the bills on top of that, it would eat into my savings rate quite a bit so I’m going to live like this for as long as I can and then try to buy a small house outright. (Best laid plans)
That is a very good point actually! I’ve been meaning to do some maths to work it out to be honest. I wonder how much I would need in my FI pot in order to survive until retirement! And also how much i would have to save over ten years to save enough into the pension to reap my expenses with inflation and compound interest until 59.5! You have given me a lot to think about here!
I put in 10% at the minute and my employer matches a big chunk of that but I’m focussing the bulk of my savings into buying a house, perhaps this needs to change…
Hi again,
Well you have time on your side to decide exactly how best to proceed so don’t panic about it that’s for sure.
FI is a long and slow moving beast even for people like you who are sprinting towards the finish line compared to tortoises like myself 🙂
I may be biased but I would continue to save for the house and buy outright as soon as you can, or if you haven’t got the whole lot and there is another housing price crash then just get a mortgage then for the remainder. Having a pile of cash saved up allows you the flexibility to get the best deal at the time you decide is right which is awesome!
We were very lucky to just have enough to cover a 10% deposit at the bottom of the market in 2009 (Although still ended up over paying due to short supply of what we could afford, people were either holding on and waiting for prices to rise or simply couldn’t afford to move due to being underwater on their mortgage I presume). But now that prices are back in the high zone, at least around where I live, you can sit and wait it out.
Well this is what I’ll be having to be living on once I reach my desired 50% pa savings rate. So yours and Caroline’s breakdowns have been very helpful.
Having been doing the sums recently I can’t believe that I need as much as the £700+ monthly remainder after all of my current fixed monthly outgoings are deducted from my net salary.
But I’ve not been including the yearly costs like car insurance, tax, MOT; annual subscriptions; birthday and Christmas gifts and the sneaky ‘other stuff’ which I’m still in the process of identifying.
I’ve got half a mind to just do it, plunge into a 50% pa savings rate, and see what happens. It might reveal what my annual living expenses really are. If I begin to struggle I could ease back a bit. Two steps forward, one step back etc.
Hi ChromeBaby,
The only way to know for sure is to track it, I would recommend MoneyDashboard for ease of use if you wanted to track spending categories semi-automatically, but if you just want a high level approach you can just track the total that went in and what you were left with at the end of each month (although that wouldn’t let you know what all that sneaky other stuff was of course).
I agree, why not just aim for the 50% then if you find yourself struggling have a look and see where that excess spending you didn’t account for is going, sounds like a great place to start. Of course if you are hitting 50% easily and you are comfortable with keeping it at that level, you are golden 🙂
Hi TFS
Thanks for the reply.
Yes, I’m going to build up to 50% by August and see how it effects me. I’ll do a 50/50 split with that on the employers pension and my own ISA S&S DD. I can still ease back if things get too tight. I do have a substantial emergency cash ISA fund, well over half my net annual take home pay, which will cover any nasty surprise big bills.
BTW, congrats on running the London Marathon! 🙂
Sounds like you have everything in hand, nice work!
And thanks 🙂