crypto currency resource starter toolkit + some of my initial thoughts
I’m currently going through that phase where you first discover something new and exciting where you just absorb an absolute shedload of information, every waking minute of your the day. I’m sure you all know what I mean as you are reading a blog about FI, that lovely honeymoon phase where you can’t get enough information!
As a quick side note, that’s the reason why I haven’t done any yearly update posts yet! I will endeavour to get at least one overview of 2017 done once I’ve run out of steam on the Crypto info! And also one looking forward to 2018. Anyway… back to the main post…
However, with Cryptocurrencies, it seems there is even more information out there than most subjects that is either totally rubbish, or deliberately misleading. The barrier to entry to be a “crypto guru” nowadays is so low (i.e. click on YouTube, open account, film some crap with your phone camera) and the incentive to mislead people so large that this fact is not really all that surprising.
I’m still learning so my bullsh!t detector is probably still a bit off, so please take some of these recommendations with a pinch of salt, but here are a few YouTube people that seem to be shooting slightly more straight than your average ‘tuber. Also, I’ve got a bunch of links to some other websites you might find useful when doing some crypto research. Hopefully this will shortcut some of you just getting into the space and save you some time having to find all this stuff yourself!
Crypto YouTubers
- Doug Polk – Is an professional poker player who’s now turned his focus onto cryptos. He seems to like calling out scams and other YouTubers who are promoting these scams which seems to give him some credibility in my eye. He also avoids all of the “TOP 5 COINS TO MAKE 1000% RETURNS” type videos, see here for his thoughts on that. He also comes across as intelligent, and tends to be rather entertaining, which always helps! Here’s a video about his current portfolio, which could be instructive (make of it what you will of course!)
- Cedric Dahl – He instantly got a mark against him for having a few videos with “1000x returns” in the titles, but I’m glad I took a quick look anyway as it turned out that what he had to say was (or seemed to me) pretty good, sensible advice and wasn’t a load of hyped up BS like what I was expecting. Here is a link to the first one in that series so take a look and see what you think for yourself. Another one which seemed rather instructive was his complete trashing of Ripple!
- Louis Thomas – He’s from the UK which is a plus point! And again he seems to just talk in a more level headed way than most about Cryptos without hyping any particular thing. Here are a few of his videos I found useful giving an overview of three of the biggest coins plans/possible outcomes in 2018: Ethereum, Bitcoin and Litecoin.
And here’s a bonus video which is the last two mentioned together doing a bit of a Q&A!
I won’t call out any specific ones to avoid but it seems that some obvious things to avoid are ones with ridiculous titles, anyone who recommends BitConnect, and I switch off pretty quickly if someone just seems to be looking at a graph and saying stuff like “well, you can see it’s gone up a bit here, then down a bit now, so it could be a good time to buy” and “This looks quite cheap right now, if it goes up to a dollar then you’ve made a hundred X”. I mean, come on…
Basic Website Resources
- CoinMarketCap – Probably the number one resource and hopefully it’s pretty obvious what’s going on here. You can look at a good overview of coin prices, market caps, volume, some mini graphs so on nice graphs. If you click through into a specific coin, you can see a bigger graph with more options, and there are also tabs for “Markets” i.e. where you can trade the coin you are looking at, social media accounts, and links to all the relevant websites where you can (hopefully!) view whitepapers and so on. There is also usually a link to the coins main thread on BitcoinTalk Forum (see below).
- Coinwink – It’s a free price alerts system for any of the coins listed on CoinMarketCap! What’s not to like about that? 🙂
- BitcoinTalk Forum (BT) – Some of the threads are hundreds of pages long so it’s not always that great to gauge exactly what’s going on with any given coin. But it’s definitely worth at least having a look and trying to skim a few pages so see if there are any disgruntled buyers/holders. Bearing in mind it’s very easy to set up fake forum accounts to either unfairly trash a coin (presumably people trying to lower the price so they can buy) or make it look like there is far more buzz than there actually is (presumably people pumping up the price who have got in much lower so they can dump it for a larger profit). Oh, here is the original BT thread about the Bitcoin pizza that I mentioned in my first post about cryptos. A piece of history right there!
- Reddit – Most cryptos seem to have a reddit page as well, and the same caveats as BitcoinTalk above apply.
- Coin Central – Is a website started by Doug Polk mentioned above, and seems to have quite a few beginner articles which I found useful. E.g.
- Airdrops – Get free crypto coins!?! Read how here.
- Making Sense of Proof of Work vs. Proof of Stake – People talk about POW and POS coins a lot so understanding the difference is going to be useful.
3 other ways to potentially make money with cryptos
So you can buy some bitcoin (or any of the other big guns) and hope it goes up. That is the obvious thing that everyone and their postman’s gran’s cat is up to. This could still make you some decent money and is probably less risky than some of the other options available to you below. But on the other hand, I feel like the race for many of these could have already been run.[/ref]Not according to many in the space, who are predicting a market cap of 5 trillion for the whole sector in a years time, which still leaves plenty of room for Bitcoin et all to go at least another 10x![/ref]. So I feel that looking elsewhere for some greater value and greater potential for crazy returns is something worth putting a bit of blood, sweat and tears into.
Here are three other ideas:
- Mining – I’m sure you’ve all heard of mining. There are different ways of doing it and to be honest I don’t really know all that much about this right now and as it seems hardware intensive, I am not looking into this right now.
- ICO’s – Just like my good friend FI Fighter, I feel that trying to pick out the next ICO that could go 100x, while obviously challenging if not impossible, could also be fun and ultimately very rewarding (financially at least!). So I’m putting a fair bit of research into this right now. If you don’t know, and ICO is an “Initial Coin Offering” and is where a company ends up selling a tonne of their coins to raise money to get their product, service, or infrastructure blockchain project off the ground. The coins act as a pseudo kind of stock because if the projects go well and start getting traction and usage, their value tends to go up. Also a lot of them tend to have returns built into their system for the coin holders 1. A good website to get the nod on ongoing and upcoming ICOs is ICO Drops, although as you’d expect there are many others out there so have a look around and see what you can find!
- Masternodes – This is my personal favourite, although has the biggest barrier to entry. And that is kind of why I like it. I think the harder something is to do, the less people will be doing it and therefore the potential returns should be higher because there are less people getting involved diluting returns. The idea is that you have to buy a big chunk of a given crypto currency, say 1000 coins at $5 per coin, costing you $5,000. You then “commit” 2 these coins to running your Masternode, which is either a physical which you own or a VPS (Virtual Private Server) that you can set up for around $5/month. This server helps with your coin network of choice by validating transactions and performing other similar functions. So you’ve stuck down your money, what do you get? Well you get a bounty for each function your masternode performs, paid in the cryptocurrency it is doing those functions/transactions for. The way I’m looking at it is like dividend income. I really like this idea because if you get into an “normal” alt coin you are simply hoping/thinking that the value of the coin will go up to make your gains. But with a Masternode based coin, you could make your money back within a couple of months anyway even if the value of the coin stays stable. Also, if the value goes up, you should in theory make more because you will have the holding of the original coins you bought to “buy” the masternode (which you can sell at any time, you just need to stop running the masternode) plus the dividend income of the coins you receive for running it, which are now worth more than when you put into it. So you could be making, say $500 a month from an initial investment of, say $1000. The other situation is obviously if the value goes down but again, you are in a better position here because although your initial investment has gone down, you are still receiving the dividend style income (albeit lower than it was when you started the masternode) so it also protects you from the downside of price drops. These are obviously all hypothetical figures but hopefully I’ve outlined why I think it’s better than just buying and holding/selling!
I realise there is a lot of information in there, especially about Masternodes, so here are a few more links for further resources and reading on that part of things specifically:
Masternodes.online – This is a great resource which lists most of the blockchain projects that you can set up a Masternode with. It has a table that tells you all the top line important stats such as the current: Price of the coin, ROI%, Masternode cost, 24 hour volume and so on. Some of the ROI% you can see here are actually insane (1000%+!!!), so the usual “if it looks too good to be true, it probably is” mantra most certainly should be applied here. Proceed with caution on those ones! On the other hand I wouldn’t immediately dismiss any of them just because of that, and am trying to get as much info as I can on the whys and wherefores of all those figures and how and why they think they can justify such ridiculous returns. See the video linked below about ROI/Volume figures by the way! There are a couple of other similar sites namely MNRank and MasternodesPro (and again I’m sure others are available that I don’t know of just yet).
What is a Masternode? – From one of the original and now biggest Blockchain project that users Masternodes, Dash
Finally, here are a couple of YouTubez from a very small (judging by views and subscribers at least!) ‘tuber that I found very helpful (he has a few more now which I am going to go and watch as well!):
As always and hopfully needless to say, be careful out if you are getting into any of this!
Also, I’d be very interested to hear anyone’s thoughts on any of the above especially those that might have had a dabble already! Let me know how it’s going!?
Cheers!
Discussion (22) ¬
good to know your still alive and kicking 🙂 I love that feeling when something new grabs all your attention and you want to spend every minute researching it. I’m like that with FI and really need to push myself hard to actually write something on the blog!
Little Miss Fire
https://littlemissfireblog.wordpress.com
Hah, that’s exactly how I feel right now about Cryptos but thought I would try to write something even if it didn’t have that much substance. I find the impetus to write is the greatest when you are in this phase as you are learning but also having loads of new ideas, but then like you say the time is shorter as you are too eager to absorb as much info as possible.
Having said that, if you write things too early there is much more chance of writing something incorrect/foolish, so as I hopefully have overstated take any of the above with a pinch of salt and definitely don’t take any of it as advice! 🙂
Man the crypto space is a wild one! You only have to look at some of the Reddit threads to spot the newbie investors making huge unqualified recommendations! No wonder the ‘classic’ investors typically turn the over cheek.
I read a book a while ago that said to keep 10% of investments for speculation, it ended up sitting in cash and I never thought it would get used but then like you I discovered crypto’s.
By investing in a bunch and keeping it to 10% I have capped my downside with a huge potential upside.
Why have only one or the other?!
Good-luck,
Sam
10% sounds reasonable to me considering we’re both relatively young. Not sure I’d bother with any of this if I were anywhere approaching FI or retirement though, hence the fair comments from the (generally) older generation we are hearing both on here and elsewhere in the media!
Dude, what’s going on? I thought this blog was about seeking FI and living modestly (your top popular post is ‘is it possible to live on £10k a year?’ – I guess at least you’ve answered that one!). I don’t mean this unkindly, but I’ve seen a lot more focus on gambling recently – and I notice you’ve not even been able to put a number on where you stand financially with that. Is it worth it, for the time you lose on it? And now….this?? I mean cryptocurrencies, really?!
Hi Red Kite,
I know you’re a long time reader so really appreciate your comments and readership over the years! So I’m not going to fob you off with a short and trite reply.
But what can I say, things chance I guess? I wrote that 10K post mainly as a thought experiment nearly 5 years ago. I guess I could take it down from the popular posts section so as not to mislead people into what this blog is currently about but I just really cannot be bothered to curate so carefully. If people really want to see what the blog is about they will go back and read all my posts and see how my thoughts and actions have evolved over the years. As you have well noticed being a long time reader!
“I thought this blog was about seeking FI” – Yes it is and plenty of people have become FI by getting involved in Cryptos over the last few years. I don’t really see how these posts are not on topic? Fair enough I may well be late to the party here but I don’t see anyone else with a crystal ball around here. And you are right it is (just more) gambling in a way but one I see with limited downside (in terms of what I’m staking as a %age of Net Worth at least) with a really big potential upside.
If you think about it, a great many people consider the stock market as gambling so I think this is more just a matter of perspective (I am assuming you have a large %age of your NW in some sort of index fund and/or retirement account?)
Re: The gambling focus, yes I have been focusing on that a lot but it seems to be what a lot of people are interested in judging by the numbers I’m getting. I’m sorry if it has at the same time turned a lot of people off. You can’t please all the people all of the time, etc…
To answer your final question I made around £7K tax free from it last year so yes, it most definitely is worth the time invested. It has essentially allowed me to work 75% of full time hours at my day job without taking a hit on overall income, and I can do the gambling at any time of day and in periods of “downtime” where I’d not be doing anything else productive so it feels like I’m freeing up free time in essence. I know it has been lame that I never bothered totting up the figures for a good few months and I’ll do a proper tot up for my Jan update, and also make sure I keep better account of it going forward.
One question back to you: “I mean cryptocurrencies, really?!” – What is it exactly you have against cryptos? I would be genuinely be interested to know. Cheers!
Thanks for the response TFS. As I said, not meant unkindly, and I’m glad that your gambling activities are profitable. One of the things I appreciate about your blog is your openness and enthusiasm, and also seeing how your thoughts, and your life, have changed over the years. What have I got against cryptos? Good question. I suppose I view it all as very high risk speculation, which is about as far from my preferred approach of rational, boring, low cost index investing as you can get! I’m personally not particularly interested in making money for the sake of it, I’m interested in how to save and invest rationally and efficiently to meet my objectives – which are basically to use financial freedom and security to go and do something more fun! I also think it’s easy to allow greed and excitement to kick in at the prospect of easy money – and that our emotions are our worst enemy when it comes to investing. But your blog, your interests, your risk, I totally respect that. I wish you well with it!
No worries Red kite. I always like to get alternative views on here to give myself a bit of a reality check so thank you for taking the time to post and do as such!
I guess the bottom line is that I’m not adverse to speculation as much as many other’s in the FI scene then (which is fair enough on both sides I think).
“it’s easy to allow greed and excitement to kick in at the prospect of easy money – and that our emotions are our worst enemy when it comes to investing” – Couldn’t agree more here and there’s an element of that here with cryptos for me, I’d be totally lying if I said otherwise! It will probably end up being easy lost money but hopefully I’ll at least learn some lessons about myself along the way 🙂
Hi FS. All this activity on the net reminds me of stuff I read in Devil take the hindmost by Chancellor. I’m afraid I’m too old / pessimistic for the new era, and find myself in agreement with Buffett. Here’s a thought experiment for you (Einstein was keen on these) – how would you feel if the value of the British Pound was as volatile as these Crypto currencies (imagine how much of a roller-coaster planning a foreign holiday would be)! In it’s present form, I can’t see many using cypto currencies as an alternative to sovereign currencies, which I thought was the original reason for their existence. But then again, what do I know 😉
Hi Felice,
That book sounds like I need to read it! 🙂
“I’m afraid I’m too old / pessimistic for the new era, and find myself in agreement with Buffett” – That’s totally fine and I agree that for him and many others his opinion is actually 100% correct! I also agree that it could all go POP and everyone could have egg on their faces and not all that much money (if any at all) left. I said as much many times in my last post. However, with a limited amount of NW in the game, I think it is worth risking it with such a long time (probably 15-20 years at current projections) I have to hit FI.
“I can’t see many using cypto currencies as an alternative to sovereign currencies, which I thought was the original reason for their existence. But then again, what do I know”
I thought about this and your thought experiment in exactly the same way at first but it turns out that not only is this not 100% how they will be (or indeed are being) used. But also there are many developments coming up this year that will improve the way they are used. That’s one very interesting facet of these currencies, they can be improved upon as time goes on as they are software and have their own development teams dedicated. So transactions will become faster, cheaper, more private and secure, and so on – hence that whole “Bitcoin transactions take 200kWh electricity argument, although valid right now, will not be valid in the future as this inefficiency will be developed away.
Further, ICO’s look very interesting to someone like me (and I am guessing many others!) as a way to “get in” at a kind of pre IPO stage of a new company forming that you think looks promising. You’d previously have to have many connections and a large war chest to get involved in anything like that, but now you can “invest”(/gamble) much smaller amounts and pretty much anyone can do it. Yes, a large portion of them will fail completely and many are outright scams. But the gains on offer if you pick the right ones are many fold. I find this incredibly exciting and am willing to offer up some of my hard earned to play the game.
I have only learnt about all of this within literally the space of about the last 2 weeks, so I’m still a total noob but this is why I’m finding it so interesting, as there are so many other sides to Cryptos that I previously thought and what the mainstream media are portraying.
Cheers!
Hi,
Reading your blog for quite some time and I am enjoying your journey.
However, what you are describing above and in your previous post seems to be totally against every advice you or any others would live by regarding FI. If the date on the post was 2015, then you’d have timed it perfectly. You talk about FOMO, well there is no missing out anymore as the moment has gone. Bitcoin will sit with the tulips in the history of bubble-mania. Maybe they are here to stay, but considering our GBP is effectively a digital currency as 97% of all GBP is digital debt, there will be a time, when people look back at Christmas 2017 on some TV show and remember with disbelief that everyone of all ages was asking about Bitcoin, and that one of them was actually selling for $20,000.
With regards to your 10% speculative allocation, that again seems to contradict your own approach. I’m sure you would choose one index fund over another to shave 0.01% of your expense ratio, yet you are willing to gamble $3,000 of your assets on what you admit to be pure speculation. You may as well take it and put it all on city to do the quadruple. As Buffet says, the first rule is don’t lose Money, the second rule is don’t forget the 1st rule.
Cryptocurrencies and their “efficient transaction ledgers” are overrated, considering I can move GBP between my two current accounts, and my mortgage (all with separate institutions) and it be there sitting in the receiving account by the time I have logged in, and this will happen 24/7.
Anyway, I would be delighted for you if your speculation bears fruit, but be careful of being “a penny wise and pound foolish”. Hindsight will always be a bitch, there will always be someone who gets lucky and becomes an overnight millionaire, but you set yourself a goal, and as long as the fundamentals and the plan is good, and you stick with it, you will get to freedom eventually. Ignore the noise about the next big thing and zealously stick to your goal.
Hi Robert,
Thanks for reading and glad you liked (most of it 🙂 ).
To be far as a whole your comments, there is not much to disagree with so I’ll just pick up on a couple of points:
“seems to be totally against every advice you or any others would live by regarding FI” – I’m sorry to nitpick on wording and if you just accidentally used the wrong word then fair play, but there is no “advice” contained in either of my last two posts on what to do with your money and I think I fairly painstakingly repeated that many times throughout both posts.
Both are simply “How to do X, Y and Z if you are interested in cryptocurrencies”. Yes the timing may be way off but it is what it is. Maybe someone will read this in 6 months time when Bitcoin hits $1000 and see’s a great buying opportunity, or whatever. I posted it now because it’s currently what I’m doing/thinking about and I find if I don’t post things when they are at the front of my mind then they don’t get posted at all.
“If the date on the post was 2015, then you’d have timed it perfectly” – So if I’d had posted this in 2015 your response would have been: “This is a great post and expertly timed”? I think not 🙂 and as you say hindsight is a bitch so please don’t use it to score cheap points 😉
“With regards to your 10% speculative allocation, that again seems to contradict your own approach. I’m sure you would choose one index fund over another to shave 0.01% of your expense ratio, yet you are willing to gamble $3,000 of your assets on what you admit to be pure speculation”
I’m not sure where you got this idea from. I’m a self-confessed gambler, I talk about it all the time. If I was even remotely interesting in stock picking or thought I could beat the market, I would probably be doing it. And although the majority of FI’ers say don’t bother with that, let’s not forget that Monevator’s TI does such a thing and I’m certain would be all but FI if he didn’t insist on living in London, and plenty of others have reached FI with a dividend stock picking focused approach to investing. There are many ways to skin the FI cat.
With the 0.01% thing, yea I guess I would do that but that’s only because it’s really easy to do so, so why wouldn’t I? Just because someone would choose to buy some washing up liquid that is 10p cheaper and right next to the more expensive one in the supermarket doesn’t mean that they don’t also think it’s a good idea to buy a BMW (not that I think it’s a good idea to buy a BMW of course, just making the point!) – I guess that ties into your pennywise/pound foolish thing but I don’t see that here as a BMW has literally zero chance of increasing ones Net Worth whereas at least speculation has some chance of doing so, although I do admit that it’s kind of analogous.
I only really go with the index funds thing because it’s the easiest way to get involved in investing and my interest in the subject has never gotten any further than that.
“Bitcoin will sit with the tulips in the history of bubble-mania.” – I totally agree now (with hindsight!) that Dec2017 was at least a mini bubble, and the media coverage pumped it up to ridiculous levels. However I don’t think that means Bitcoin or other cryptos are anywhere near dead in the water. Yes $20,000 was ridiculous for the time, but personally I think there is plenty of more pent up demand that will push it back to these levels, at some point, and that will be a valid price at some point. With it crashing down to below $7,000 as I write this, it looks like you are far more right than I am but I guess time will tell. Fully happy to admit that I was wrong in a year or two (and have paid the price financially) 🙂 🙁
Oh and if you want to lay me 100/1 on Man City doing the treble I’ll happily stick my £3000 on it! 😉
I’ve actually got a couple of cheeky £1 bets on Man C doing the treble or the quadruple… 😉
Nice!!! 🙂
Hi TFS
Cheers for all this info – I’ve checked out some of the links and whilst part of me (the gambling part!) itches to dive in, the other part is happy to just watch and follow from the sidelines – the latter part is still winning!
I sort of understand why some of your readers think this all appears to be against your FIRE ethos but it isn’t part of your main strategy – you’re just running an experiment and might (or might not) make some money along the way. This isn’t really too different from me throwing real money at my Monkey Stocks or my Dogs Portfolio I guess – we’re just using a bit of ‘fun money’ we can afford to lose to do something other than stick it all in sensible boring index funds!
Good luck – this week or so has probably been an interesting one for your crypto portfolio!
Hi weenie,
No worries, I’m glad you found it at least interesting. I’m not advocating anyone should get involved but I think it pays to look at these things with an open mind (although if you haven’t got time/can’t be bothered then that’s all well and good as well!).
Yea I can see the point of view as well but I’ve readily admitted it’s probably in a bubble, and most of the other points they’ve made. I guess you could argue then that I’m just plain stupid 🙂
But, and it’s a fairly big one IMO, they nor I have a crystal ball into the future and so I don’t see how people can be so confident in dismissing the whole thing.
It seems people can be a bit sanctimonious about index investing, yes it is the most rational choice but at the end of the day we are still speculating in some sense that the stock market continues to rise over long periods of time, and just because it has done so over the last 100 or so years doesn’t mean there is a zero chance it can’t fall significantly for very long periods of time (Japan) or a currency to get devalued (Russia and many other examples, admittedly can’t ever see that happening in UK or USA but the point remains it can happen!). Many people would use 2008 as a reason to not get involved in index funds investing as it is pure gambling as you could have lost 50% of your money in short order.
But we all know different because we’re so smart… right?
Hi TFS,
I’m a bit late to the party on reading this post. It’s interesting to hear your thoughts on crypto investing/speculating. I’ve chosen to put about 2K into crypto, just to have some money in the game so to speak. I’ve mostly stuck with the big 3 (bitcoin, ethereum & litecoin), although I have put some into an ICO which I heard about through a friend I met at a Tony Robbins event last year. If you’re interested he has a free Facebook group where he talks about ICOs and he’s also started a paid service called cryptorookies who get special deals on ICOs. The free FB Group is PTECryptocurrencycommunity (PTE stands for part time entrepreneur). If you want more info on crypto rookies let me know!
Good luck with it, and thanks for writing about a diversified range of money topics related to FIRE.
Corinna
Hi Corinna,
Many thanks for that. I may well check it out, although have to admit I am already way over subscribed in the Crypto space already, so I may have to just let all those potentially lucrative ICO’s fly by for now.
Cheers!
Thanks for helping out! Cryptos are gaining popularity 🙂