give me one good reason to leave, i’ll give you ten good reasons to stay
“Give me one good reason to leave
I’ll give you ten good reasons to stay
EUR the only one I believe in
I’ll be hurt, I’ll be hurt, if we walk away”
Ah… if only the Remain campaign had chosen this as their official song maybe things would have turned out differently?! 🙂
Don’t worry, I’m not really going to list out 10 reasons to stay. That horse has clearly already bolted anyway and the stable door was wide open.
However I did make the mistake of checking the EU referendum live result when baby T was having a night feed and now I can’t sleep, so I’m hoping a quick (don’t worry it will be short!) rant on here can clear my head and send me back to the land of nod. So this post is totally, 100% for purely selfish reasons 🙂
brexit confirmed!
I don’t particularly care about the functional aspects of what the by now confirmed Leave result means to me or us as a country really.
I don’t care that the pound has already sunk to 1985 lows and that the FTSE 100 is probably going to open at least 10% lower than it was yesterday and take a chunk out of our Net Worth.
What I care about is the underlying views of what those who have voted to leave really mean, and what I am seeing and hearing are views that make me sad.
You see I don’t think that the large majority of people have actually voted with their heads, they’ve voted emotionally on what “issues” have fired them up. And from what I can see the leave voters and therefore the majority representation of the UK are emotionally motivated by:
Xenophobia – They are scared of people who are different to them
Small mindedness – They still have that small islander mentality
Immigrants – This seems to keep coming up again and again and is a tangible representation of the first two points for most leave voters (again, from what I’ve seen. Any leave voters reading feel free to disagree with me!)
To those who have an issue with immigrants, I say google the term “the birth lottery” and have a bit of a read on that. If you still feel the same way then again this makes me sad.
I also think it’s fair to say these sort of views tend to come from the more uneducated end of the spectrum. So what are they scared of? Immigrants taking all the good jobs?
GET AN EDUCAYSHUN THEN YOU CAN GET THE BETTER JOBS, FUCKWITS!!!!
Seriously in our line of work I’ve seen so many applicants for jobs from the UK who are absolutely terrible, that we don’t have much choice but to hire better candidates who’ve come over from the EU mainland. I guess we’re going to be stuck with UK morons from now on though.
Maybe this is just anecdotal evidence from a quick peruse of my facebook feed last night, but I haven’t really heard any other persuasive arguments to leave that didn’t prey on our good ole monkey brain.
media-ocracy?
I do wonder what is the point in having a public referendum when the vast majority fall for the bullshit spouting from the likes of the Daily Mail, Farage etc…
Are we really living in a democracy or are people too easily controlled by what is pumped out by the media?
Are the media just giving people what they want to hear or are they just propaganda machines trying to control the masses to get what the powerful owners want for their own ends?
I don’t have the answer of course, I’m guessing it’s a bit of both, and I certainly don’t have any better or fairer ideas than a public referendum.
Anyway let’s hand it to the people of the UK:
Farage, Donald Trump, and the nutter who killed MP Jo Cox – You agree with all of these shining beacons for humanity. Congrats to all you who voted leave!
Right, that seems like enough on this and I’m getting sleepy again, so I’ll leave you with the man himself Jason to sing us all out…
Discussion (30) ¬
Now let’s talk about the next topic, playing the stock market to maximise returns during turbulent times. I’ve got to say that’s all I can think about now.
Haha true enough Cora.
I think just keep buying, whatever it plunges too I’m sure it will bounce back just fine. Life and business will go on just fine for most of us investors…
Wow, this Brexit has certainly got you Brits fired up. No guessing which side you’re on TFS. I hope it does work out for the better but it’s become a bit of a lottery now hasn’t it. Now let’s see if our American cousins can make the right decision who not to vote for in their upcoming election.
Haha, well I guess so yea.
I don’t think it will change much in my day to day life I just don’t like what it represents as stated.
Genuinely worried about Trump now!
It took me the best part of 30 minutes to get to place an order this morning through my broker – there was some serious issues going on! I got there in the end, but not after the bounce back up was well underway, but its the long game, so lets see in another 10 years I wont even notice.
I have to say its certainly been interesting, vote leave for me on a personal level is not good for my work and potential future, however I also look at the tactics employed by both sides and it was frankly disgraceful. I have to say what pushed me away from Remain was the people saying we ought to stay in 🙂 I did a huge amount of personal research on this to try and work out which way I would vote in the end, and had to decide between what I thought was better for me versus what may be better for the country. I dont think the outcome will make a huge amount of difference, we need immigrants as a country to support our aging population, and to do a lot of the work that some of the lazy brits wont do. Do we need all the red tape from brussels, when so many small companies dont trade with them? Probably not… do I support the size of pensions given to the MEPs after such short tenures…. no… do I think the stability and status quo helps things… yes.
Its a tough one, and I am going to watch with interest the outcome over the next few days…
Nice work with the trading LR… It bounced back pretty quickly in the end huh?
I was too busy to bother with any of it but I reckon there will be more turbulence to come so sure I haven’t missed out completely.
What people didn’t you like saying remain? Stephen Hawking vs Farage… Hmm not much contest there for me 😉
Nice to hear you did a lot of research on this (agreed with pretty much all of your short analysis btw!) which is more than most people did by the sounds of things according to the google search trending “What is the EU” etc! 🙁
“Immigrants – This seems to keep coming up again and again and is a tangible representation of the first two points for most leave voters (again, from what I’ve seen. Any leave voters reading feel free to disagree with me!)”
As a second generation immigrant, I am pro-immigration yet I voted Leave.
Ultimately, I was still in the Undecided camp – I supported many of Remain’s arguments but I also agreed with some of Leave’s arguments. I ended up voting Leave but not for immigration reasons.
For me, Leave = Change.
Perhaps I wasn’t in the right frame of mind when I voted, having just been told by faceless bureaucrats in Paris that my job was on the line.
It didn’t feel like victory to me this morning anyway.
Certainly, I am a little dismayed that David Cameron will be stepping down and that there is the real prospect of Boris Johnson of being Prime Minister.
Democracy at its best or its worst.
Hi weenie,
It’s interesting, there is a lot of news coming out that many Leave voters are now regretting the decision. I personally don’t think much will change, there will still be faceless bureaucrats running the show but they just won’t be based in Brussels.
Just to be clear I didn’t want to tarnish all Leave voters with that same brush on immigration, but it’s just what I hear more often than not either on my own social media feeds and when voters have been interviewed on TV etc…
Cheers!
Weenie, when you say you voted Leave because Leave=Change, why did you think Change in this instance was a good thing? … It seems to me that the only changes we face now are negative, particularly since the leaders of the Leave campaign have admitted both that they were lying about the NHS and the immigration issue. I suspect that the Leave camp did not expect to win and didn’t present a plan for how it would all work because they don’t have one.
Hi Cathy
I got really disillusioned when DC tried to negotiate a better EU deal and came away with nothing. That could have probably helped swing my vote.
There’s just panic and doom and gloom at the moment, so all the negative stuff will come into focus because of the likely change but no one knows for sure, there could be positive stuff too.
I am concerned that the Leave camp are now backtracking on what they promised – politicians to the core.
Yes, I suspect that they didn’t expect to win or rather, they thought that DC would stay on to sort things out for them.
I’m an immigrant, alas from a first world country (Germany) I’m absolutely shocked that England decided to vote leave. It will have a huge impact on the country and I’m afraid it’s not going to be positive. The first things I can think about are : travel is going to be more expensive and goods from other countries and if anyone dares wanting to live in the uk in the future they’ll have to go through a ridiculous visa process ( I have lived in the states before and know what I’m talking about)
I hope this will all not be as bad as I think it will be.
Yea as I say it’s not going to affect us all that much (barring the travel stuff) but we’ve given a massive middle finger to everyone else… Little Britain small mindedness at it’s worst… IMHO.
Thanks for chipping in, I think everyone was shocked even most “Leave” voters this morning!
I was sorry to hear the outcome. It sounds like you got a little America in your UK, Firestarter! And just like in the US, the people who fear immigration the most live in areas with the fewest immigrants. Familiarity erases fear and breeds empathy.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/24/voting-details-show-immigration-fears-were-paradoxical-but-decisive
Nerve-wracking to think this could lead to a second Scotland independence referendum succeeding, and maybe even a united Ireland. Not much left of the UK after that. It shouldn’t have ever been put up for a vote.
“Familiarity erases fear and breeds empathy” – Great point and totes agree with you Norm on that one.
Thanks for sharing the Guardian link – It would be interesting to hear from “Leave” voters who placed their vote based on the fear of immigration what they thought about Irish people coming over here to work. I wonder if they would be bothered about that, if not then it proves it’s just Xenophobia at work straight up which is what I strongly suspect.
In a weird way I would actually like to see Scotland and NI exit the UK now and give us what we (well 52% of us) deserve (or even want?). If people want to be insular and not a part of a larger Union then surely breaking up the UK is also desirable.
Cheers!
You sound like a sore loser
Thanks for enlightening us with your stellar wit and persuasive arguments Mike! 🙂
There is no doubt that Scotland will vote Yes next time, since a large part of the pragmatic no argument has now been blown away – the expense, disruption, uncertainty, economic risk….the only salient pragmatic argument remaining is which currency they will use.
Totally agreed with you there Vanguardfan!
It’s not as simple as that, however. I was a Bremain-er too, but Deborah Orr summed up the issue for many with Leave in a subheading “Free movement is a big political problem”
It’s all very well for us to sneer about smarts on the Leavers etc, but we don’t have this personal experience. You because you are in a well-paid job, me because I was in one. These are our fellow countrymen and they’re having a shit experience of precarious low paid jobs. I don’t think they were wise, but I can understand the sentiment, the result was clear and the turnout fully respectable. It is what the British people, in the round, wanted. Whether the consequences are what they wanted remains to be seen.
Fully with you in that I do regret that Thatcher iced the rules on media ownership and concentration though.
Hi ermine,
There are many many people who do not have my experience agreed and I can’t comment about those Leaver’s, but I am talking about people within my general social group (some are close friends, some are just people I “know” i.e. are still somehow on my Facebook) who also have good jobs.
What is their beef? That’s what I want to know. I think it’s just scapegoating their life problems onto something/someone else.
As we’re in the PF scene a perfect example is moaning that they don’t get paid enough, possibly due to immigrants coming over and driving down wages, whereas you and I both know most people make horrendous financial choices and they could fairly easily sort out most of their problems with money themselves if they really wanted to. Easier to blame some external factor of course.
Do you think that BrExit will be a serious problem for Europeans or brits in obtaining F.I.R.E. or do you (like me) think that the market, and the international companies, will find a way to deal with it. Like the (ab)use of selective tax laws in different countries. In the end, commercial industry will probably find a way to use it to their benefit.
In short term, we might indeed see some marketopportunities than again most of the companies and stocks should be hedged. The markets will bounce back very shortly, and marginally change. But that just my two cents.
Hi mr MB,
I’m not worried about it at all in terms of the markets or FIRE plans. Business will still continue and the stock market will continue to rise albeit maybe with some more bumps in the road (which basically just means more buying opportunities…!)
I even think the whole thing about prices rising is most probably not going to materialise either.
Agreed with you on the bounceback. I didn’t get time to buy anything on Friday so hoping for more turbulence over the next few months so I can get some funds in place (from my matched betting profits! 🙂 )
Uncertainty will prevail for some time for sure but politically could be the biggest changes.
Scotland and N Ireland could both leave as the have good grounds to leave
Labour and Conservative parties both look like having issues – perhaps split within?
The migrant/xenophobia would assist UKIP causes
The EU will not make it easy for UK as they are now competitors vying for business
LEAVE plans – single market or not – looks tricky as they need to accept the ‘four freedoms’ attached (including free movement of people!), Going alone from scratch for trade agreements will be lengthy
Fun ahead but I don’t have much confidence in the new ‘leaders’
Hi Pete,
Pretty much agree on all your points there, it will definitely take ages for all of it to pan out that’s the only thing that is certain.
Just imagine if Boris becomes Prime Minister… 🙁
Cheers
Lets see what it will be next to this Brexit. Everyone is scared.
Hopefully the fear is a bit overblown on this one but we shall find out over the coming months and years.
Hi TFS, i’m a bit late to the party here but thought i’d share my 2p’s worth as i dont think its been covered above.
This vote has shone a light on how politicians can spin complete bollocks and make it sound substantial.
I was completely BRemain initially. I’ve seen the good work the EU has done for environmental (and workers rights to a lesser degree) legislation. These are potentially unpopular with big business issues that MPs can implement behind the shroud of “europe made us, what can we do”.
I listened to the debates and decided neither side had a clue what would happen. Leaving meant a lot more work for politicians and business rewriting any forward projections based on the relative status quo.
I did a lot of research on the mechanics of the EU, which was interesting, enlightening and scary. It is an unwieldly behemoth. We had a great position with a lot of special allowances compared to other member states. I think that paying to share wealth with poorer members is good but funding the administrative nightmare that is the EU isnt in GBs best interests at all and weakens GB.
I voted leave if you havent guessed yet! I know a lot of anti-immigration voters went for leave, but how many voted for remain because the anti immigration rhetoric stirred up their liberal indignation?
As for immigration, it wont change a busting lot (politicians love it but cant say so…shhh). I do feel the option to control it is an important principle to retain though. Hope all is good in the TFS household.
Hi SG,
Thanks for the considered reply.
I think the media did their best to portray as many leave voters as imbeciles, which was a bit harsh to say the least on the large majority of you!
You are right no one knows how it will pan out, hopefully it will turn out we did make the right decision although in reality no one will ever know for sure unless we can invent a parallel universe machine (which, you never know, might actually happen if you go by this sort thing: http://waitbutwhy.com/2015/01/artificial-intelligence-revolution-1.html – sorry a bit of topic but interesting nonetheless 🙂 )
Again must say the readers of this blog are a fantastic bunch, got some great replies even after I’ve been rather ranty there… cheers all!